Is P4p Immoral?

[Sinapse]

it isn't clear to me that mongers are any more obligated to work against the exploitation and abuse of women in the commercial sex industry than non-mongers. Do those who buy and eat chocolate have a greater obligation to fight against the child slavery and exploitation in that industry than people who don't consume chocolate?

I would say the answer is a resounding yes. If you don't eat chocolate you are not putting money directly into an industry which supports child labor. This is why people boycott things like Nike and sweatshop labor or UGGs and animal cruelty, demand free trade products, etc etc. While the fact that child labor exists somewhere because somebody eats chocolate is still bad, it's not directly YOUR fault for buying the product (creating the demand) which causes the child labor to be necessary. If nobody ate chocolate, no children would be required to work to harvest it. If everybody was getting laid freely left and right, no women would need to be sex trafficked.

It is precisely because so many people *feel* that it is wrong for consenting adults to sell sex that it is illegal, and it is precisely its illegality that encourages the involvement of criminal elements in the industry and allows their abuses to remain semi-hidden and hard to suppress legally.

While I do support legalization of most drugs and prostitution, I am not so sure. Sex trafficking still exists in ALL countries where prostitution is legal. Criminal elements will always traffick humans where there is demand for paid sex, regardless of legality. This is in stark contrast to, for example, marijuana, which grows freely like a weed wherever it is permitted. Thus, if legalized, nobody would be able to abuse or control the distribution of marijuana.

Your argument of chocolate (or anything else) vs. prostitution is somewhat compelling. For me, however it breaks down at the level of personal involvement. I do as much as I can to not buy things which I know were produced in bad conditions - sweatshops, child labor, etc. However, the fact that we don't have to look the victim in the eye does make it easier (this is not really a good thing). If I walk into a store - Armani or Lacoste, for example - and I look at their clothes, I don't SEE the child picking cotton or weaving the shirt. It's impersonal to me. I try to avoid buying it wherever I can, but I also realize its kind of a necessary evil in this day and age. If I lived right next to a sweatshop and had to look them in the eye every day I think I would fight a lot harder against child labor.

The issue I'm getting at is - when I buy a chocolate bar, I see a chocolate bar. When you buy sex, you see a woman, a human being! Do you not look directly into her eyes? Do you not feel compassion and wonder at her condition and freedom in her profession? If you are telling me that you walk into a brothel, pay a woman, look her in the eye, and do the deed without worrying about her well being and freedom in her situation, then when you are finished dust your hands off and say to yourself "Well I'm no worse than someone buying a chocolate bar"... I have to say I'm a bit shocked.

It's one thing to buy a chocolate bar and think that somewhere, someone might be getting exploited or paid less than they should be. It's another thing entirely to be in the same room as a woman who might be exploited and have the most intimate of human experiences with her. It's not Nike and politicians and supply chains and capitalists and distributors across thousands of miles. Its you in a room fucking a woman. And if you have the ability to have that experience with other women without exploitation involved - why would you not take that option? If there was a "slave labor" chocolate bar right next to a "no slave labor" chocolate bar...... why on earth would you pick the "slave labor" chocolate bar??

 

[Wwanderer]

If p4p wasn't immoral, why won't p4p users talk freely about it in public, why is it hidden activity, almost shame activity?

Because of all the people who *feel* that sex isn't or shouldn't be a commodity and therefore stigmatize and in many places legally suppress p4p.

It is perhaps the same reason that PUA promoters often make their public pitches under (silly sounding) pseudonyms like Mystery or Lovedrop. They too are being stigmatized by the feelings of a puritanical majority that has prudish attitudes toward sex.

To me it's like tea and coffee, some day I'd feel like coffee some other day I'd prefer a tea.

Precisely so. This is why I think it is so absurd to keep contrasting p4p with PUA/gaming. They are not mutually exclusive alternatives; they are just two options among many, and for many guys they do not even have the same goals and motivations. It is like talking about, say, playing friendly games of golf or of chess as though they were the only two possible ways of enjoying leisure time in a mildly competitive activity. Makes zero sense imo. In other words, I agree with your coffee or tea analogy.

-Ww

 

[meiji]

You supporting the system by dumping money into it = system doesn't change. You're free to support it. Doesn't make it moral.

Well, first, I never claimed it was moral. I have no illusions that I'm a knight in shining armor because I'm giving a woman money. But dumping money into it does change the system, because the nice byproduct of giving people money that they didn't have before is that it at least has a chance of reducing economic inequality.

Take a look at that last part that I put in bold. How are they in control of their own lives if they don't have other options? Total contradiction there.

Having fewer options is not the same thing as having no options.

I'm not sure why you object to sexual slavery / human trafficking being mentioned alongside prostitution.. are there more common destinations for trafficked women?

Because they aren't the same thing. One involves consent and the other doesn't. And most of the anti-prostitution groups out there don't care about the difference since their goal is to ban all prostitution. And these efforts only drive women in danger of slavery and trafficking even further underground.

My issue is that I think it's a tragedy that some men think they can't get enough sex and so they feel they have to pay for it. I think it's a shame that many modern men are unaware of how to communicate with women in an attractive way and shoot FAR FAR below the level they can actually get. Too often I see guys get into relationships and marriages out of fear and scarcity of sex rather than out of supreme love for their partner. In short, the scarcity of sex is my main opponent.

I'm not really sure why this is here, unless you posted this whole thing about P4P's morality just to randomly badmouth it.

The fact is that life is a series of trade-offs. The vast majority of people that you are preaching to are already too far gone. They are already married and are unlikely to have the time and energy to spend talking to women. And there's a lot of people (like me) who are actually generally happy with the 'quality' of women I meet and end up in relationships with, but I utilize P4P to find some variety at times and be with a woman who is pretty good in bed when I'm between relationships.

I'm not really sure why people can't engage in P4P and/or PUA and just let everyone else be. We all like different things, and that's not just talking about whether you prefer big tits or not.

 

[meiji]

If p4p wasn't immoral, why won't p4p users talk freely about it in public, why is it hidden activity, almost shame activity?

If an acquaintance of yours randomly asked you how often you fuck your wife, and what sort of positions she likes, would you freely talk about it with them? If not, why not?

 

[Sinapse]

I think it is so absurd to keep contrasting p4p with PUA/gaming. They are not mutually exclusive alternatives; they are just two options among many, and for many guys they do not even have the same goals and motivations.

Gaming, also known as "talking to women with the intent of sleeping with them," is pretty much what ALL men do. In this way, I think that gaming and p4p kind of ARE the only two options.. with the possible third option of never talking to anybody you don't know and only going after women who come to you (maybe we can call it the "Wallflower option"), which doesn't sound very promising.

I mean, basically ALL men are out there, whether it is at the bar or near the work water cooler, trying to talk women into bed. The only thing that designates someone as a "gamer" is that they actively attempt to improve and reflect on their interactions, and perhaps are a bit more proactive about seeking women out. What other options do you see?

 

[Sinapse]

Because they aren't the same thing. One involves consent and the other doesn't. And most of the anti-prostitution groups out there don't care about the difference since their goal is to ban all prostitution. And these efforts only drive women in danger of slavery and trafficking even further underground.

I agree human trafficking and prostitution aren't the same thing. My point is that you generally don't have human trafficking without prostitution.

I'm not really sure why this is here, unless you posted this whole thing about P4P's morality just to randomly badmouth it.

When I think about it, the real reason I started the discussion of p4p being possible immoral was I got tired of people coming to PUA threads to talk trash and dispense moral judgments while they stood on equally, if not more dubious ground. In short, hypocrisy bothers me much more than prostitution. But you're right I should take the moral high ground and just let the haters hate rather than stooping down to their level.

The fact is that life is a series of trade-offs. The vast majority of people that you are preaching to are already too far gone. They are already married and are unlikely to have the time and energy to spend talking to women. And there's a lot of people (like me) who are actually generally happy with the 'quality' of women I meet and end up in relationships with, but I utilize P4P to find some variety at times and be with a woman who is pretty good in bed when I'm between relationships.

Of course. Don't imagine that I'm over here typing and thinking that @Wwanderer or @just4fun are going start going out on the streets and talking to women or coming to my next bootcamp! I don't really do all this to convince them of anything - with them it's more just fun of the debate. The only people I'd like to reach are guys who aren't satisfied with their ability to get women and be attractive. I'm glad you are happy with the quality of women you meet and end up in relationships with, and I want to help out guys who aren't at that level yet. I've said it before and I'll say it again- I don't fundamentally have an issue with p4p. If people want to do it, they should. But - if people feel like that is their only option for reliably getting sex with attractive women - I think they are selling themselves short.

That's all

I'm not really sure why people can't engage in P4P and/or PUA and just let everyone else be.

I very much agree with this. I'll just put it this way.... they started it ^^
PUAs are generally getting too much ass to be worried about what other people are paying for or not

 

[Dorian Gray]

Well, first, I never claimed it was moral. I have no illusions that I'm a knight in shining armor because I'm giving a woman money.

So, we've now established that prostitution is immoral (thread progress - yay!). It now only remains to be discussed what we should do about this situation, i.e. whether it should be legal or not. Wwanderer makes some good arguments on the plus side, and I'm inclined to agree with Sinapse about consenting adults being able to do what they want. But again, morality and legality are quite different things.

But dumping money into it does change the system, because the nice byproduct of giving people money that they didn't have before is that it at least has a chance of reducing economic inequality.

Patronizing prostitutes reinforces the system - that's about it. You're voting with your wallet, in other words. It's like saying "I'm buying tons of Nikes because damn, at least those exploited workers make a TINY BIT of money!" Completely different from real options or structural change.

The vast majority of people that you are preaching to are already too far gone. They are already married and are unlikely to have the time and energy to spend talking to women.

In my experience this is very rarely the case, and people become much happier and more fulfilled once they start pursuing their desires authentically (whether that means tons of one night stands or just pursuing who they actually want as opposed to who society has conditioned them to believe they're capable of getting). Sounds better to me than "eking out fast sex with hookers on pocket money provided by wife I'm staying with for 'stability'". But, as always, your mileage may vary.

 

[Sinapse]

"eking out fast sex with hookers on pocket money provided by wife I'm staying with for 'stability'"

 

[Wwanderer]

I mean, basically ALL men are out there, whether it is at the bar or near the work water cooler, trying to talk women into bed. The only thing that designates someone as a "gamer" is that they actively attempt to improve and reflect on their interactions, and perhaps are a bit more proactive about seeking women out. What other options do you see?

The bit in bold and indeed this whole perspective is incorrect imo. It is also an important way in which a lot of gamers/PUAs appear to misunderstand human sexuality as far as I can see. I think gamers and some mongers are to women and sex as gourmets/foodies are to cuisines and meals, i.e., obsessive fanatics. While most men say they would love to have sex frequently with lots of hot women (to say otherwise would be embarrassingly non-macho of course), they are in reality perfectly happy with a much less intense and "high level" sex life (a couple of times per week with their wife and *maybe* an occasional casual romp with someone on the side) which satisfies their basic sexual urges/appetites. Beyond that they'd rather spend their time, energy and money on completely nonsexual and non-relationship activities. Similarly, most people would say that they'd love to have many great meals featuring the world's most delicious foods, but in reality they are satisfied as long as they routinely get enough ordinary/acceptable food to satisfy their appetites. Beyond that they are not motivated to put more effort or resources into the quality of their dining experiences.

This is why neither mongering nor gaming are significant in most people's lives...or even in most of the sex that takes place on the planet.

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

The bit in bold and indeed this whole perspective is incorrect imo. It is also an important way in which a lot of gamers/PUAs appear to misunderstand human sexuality as far as I can see. I think gamers and some mongers are to women and sex as gourmets/foodies are to cuisines and meals, i.e., obsessive fanatics. While most men say they would love to have sex frequently with lots of hot women (to say otherwise would be embarrassingly non-macho of course), they are in reality perfectly happy with a much less intense and "high level" sex life (a couple of times per week with their wife and *maybe* an occasional casual romp with someone on the side) which satisfies their basic sexual urges/appetites. Beyond that they'd rather spend their time, energy and money on completely nonsexual and non-relationship activities. Similarly, most people would say that they'd love to have many great meals featuring the world's most delicious foods, but in reality they are satisfied as long as they routinely get enough ordinary/acceptable food to satisfy their appetites. Beyond that they are not motivated to put more effort or resources into the quality of their dining experiences.

This is why neither mongering nor gaming are significant in most people's lives...or even in most of the sex that takes place on the planet.

-Ww

I get that not all men want tons of sex with lots of random women. I never said anything to the contrary (don't confuse my own manic appetites with the desires of everyone who puts time into gaming.. many of them simply want a single girlfriend). Even in your example you say

they are in reality perfectly happy with a much less intense and "high level" sex life (a couple of times per week with their wife and *maybe* an occasional casual romp with someone on the side) which satisfies their basic sexual urges/appetites

This still puts them in the category of sexually active men who talk to women to fulfill their desires... or...

Spoiler: (big reveal)

GAMERS

As @Dorian Gray said more succinctly than I have:

people become much happier and more fulfilled once they start pursuing their desires authentically (whether that means tons of one night stands or just pursuing who they actually want as opposed to who society has conditioned them to believe they're capable of getting

 

[Dorian Gray]

I think gamers and some mongers are to women and sex as gourmets/foodies are to cuisines and meals, i.e., obsessive fanatics. While most men say they would love to have sex frequently with lots of hot women (to say otherwise would be embarrassingly non-macho of course), they are in reality perfectly happy with a much less intense and "high level" sex life (a couple of times per week with their wife and *maybe* an occasional casual romp with someone on the side) which satisfies their basic sexual urges/appetites.

You're of course right about this, and I don't think either myself, Sinapse or anyone here would dispute it. But there are enough men with high sex drives around, and enough men who simply want (perhaps in a vague, general way, without really being able to pinpoint specifics until they're asked to do so) MORE, that it's a significant issue. I'm not going to crusade against p4p, but I do see the way that the "just pay for it" attitude affects pretty much everything in Japanese society, and the dissatisfactions it creates.

-Guys having contempt for themselves and for girls because they don't know how to proactively approach multiple girls or even find a single girlfriend

-Girls having contempt for guys because they see them spending so much time and money at the kyaba, soap lands, etc.

-Working girls (kyabajo and delivery health) having contempt for customers or not seeing any other options to make money, and seeing diminishing financial returns as they get older and the demand for their services drops.

And the company and social systems that promote and allow all this are partly to blame. Of course, all of this is just my opinion, and I'm a gamer, not a politician. I just get tired of hearing complaints about all this from Japanese men and women alike. Almost everyone I've seen who has put serious time into game has come away much happier. One of my students just announced his marriage recently and said that he wouldn't have been able to meet a girl he loved as much if he hadn't learned how to approach on the street (he'd previously frequented p4p and was consistently miserable). Anecdotal? Maybe. But anecdotes add up.

 

[meiji]

I agree human trafficking and prostitution aren't the same thing. My point is that you generally don't have human trafficking without prostitution.

You're wrong. Prostitution is actually a fairly small portion of human trafficking. Most human trafficking victims are put into forced labor, not forced prostitution. This was my point about a lot of industries being exploitative. Have you eaten shrimp recently? Because a lot of shrimp out there is grown in southeast Asia, harvested with slave labor. Do you watch soccer? Dozens of forced laborers have died building the Qatar soccer stadiums for the World Cup in 2022 (although they might get their Cup bid stripped from them).

So, we've now established that prostitution is immoral

Um...I didn't say it was immoral. Please read for content. The world is a little more complicated than just black and white.

It's like saying "I'm buying tons of Nikes because damn, at least those exploited workers make a TINY BIT of money!"

It's not like that at all.

more fulfilled once they start pursuing their desires authentically (whether that means tons of one night stands...

Yes, because tons of one night stands are somehow more emotionally fulfilling and "authentic" than tons of one night stands with sugar babies or escorts? I don't really see the difference. In my opinion they are both existences that are pretty empty emotionally.

 

[NormalGuy]

p4p = pay for a fish
Game = pay to learn how to fish yourself so you don't ever have to pay for fish again.

Unless you want to fuck a fish, your comparison is pointless.

P4Per - sits in his nice warm office, earning 30k an hour, decides to stop by the fishmonger on his way home and buy a couple of fish for 20k, chooses his fish from the fishmongers slab and is home 5 minutes later.

PUA - takes his rod out by the river and casts his line. Never sure if he'll go hungry or have a feast. Some days spends 5 minutes before getting a bite, some days spends a few hours.

Both get what they want, never normally fishing in the same spot and never normally affecting each other.

BUT

On TAG, the fishermen walk past the office block on the way to the river, look up at the men in the offices and mumble "fucking office losers", whilst the guy in his office looks down at the fisherman and mumbles, "fucking fishermen"

 

[TAG Manager]

On TAG, the fishermen walk past the office block on the way to the river, look up at the men in the offices and mumble "fucking office losers", whilst the guy in his office looks down at the fisherman and mumbles, "fucking fishermen"

That mental image.... it cannot be unseen.

 

[Sinapse]

Unless you want to fuck a fish, your comparison is pointless.

P4Per - sits in his nice warm office, earning 30k an hour, decides to stop by the fishmonger on his way home and buy a couple of fish for 20k, chooses his fish from the fishmongers slab and is home 5 minutes later.

PUA - takes his rod out by the river and casts his line. Never sure if he'll go hungry or have a feast. Some days spends 5 minutes before getting a bite, some days spends a few hours.

Both get what they want, never normally fishing in the same spot and never normally affecting each other.

BUT

On TAG, the fishermen walk past the office block on the way to the river, look up at the men in the offices and mumble "fucking office losers", whilst the guy in his office looks down at the fisherman and mumbles, "fucking fishermen"

Hahaha, I approve of this.

And I'll be damned if I don't have an excellent tan and healthy Vitamin D levels from being outside! The only thing I'd add is the PUA also has a healthy stable of fish who will gladly swim over on short notice should he prove to not catch something or feel to lazy to walk down to the river any given day ^^

 

[Wwanderer]

This is why people boycott things like Nike and sweatshop labor or UGGs and animal cruelty, demand free trade products, etc etc.

For me, however it breaks down at the level of personal involvement. I do as much as I can to not buy things which I know were produced in bad conditions - sweatshops, child labor, etc. However, the fact that we don't have to look the victim in the eye does make it easier (this is not really a good thing). If I walk into a store - Armani or Lacoste, for example - and I look at their clothes, I don't SEE the child picking cotton or weaving the shirt. It's impersonal to me.

If there was a "slave labor" chocolate bar right next to a "no slave labor" chocolate bar...... why on earth would you pick the "slave labor" chocolate bar??

It is 1:30am here in NYC, and I'm headed to bed, but fwiiw, the analogy of what you say above is pretty much exactly my personal approach to avoid supporting the immoral activities that take place in the p4p industry. Namely I try my best to avoid patronizing any sex worker whom I suspect of being coerced. Fortunately there are lots of sex workers who have freely chosen to do their jobs, and they are relatively easy to distinguish from those who have not. This is a way in which the personal and "up close" nature of the interaction makes things easier.

In other words, in p4p there are plenty of chocolate bars which were not made with exploited or slave labor, and they are rather clearly so labeled.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Hahaha, I approve of this.

And I'll be damned if I don't have an excellent tan and healthy Vitamin D levels from being outside! The only thing I'd add is the PUA also has a healthy stable of fish who will gladly swim over on short notice should he prove to not catch something or feel to lazy to walk down to the river any given day ^^

I approve too and note that the P4Per has many options for dinner other than fish, but we have covered this ground in other threads and have drifted away from the OP's question...as was inevitable once we started comparing P4P with PUA/game.

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

You're wrong. Prostitution is actually a fairly small portion of human trafficking.

Sorry, I meant sex trafficking. Or, I think your original words were "sexual slavery"

As for the soccer / shrimp / etc argument.. I already addressed that

 

[User#16452]

Haha, but seriously, why would enjoying a book with gay undertones conflict with gaming women? For someone who's apparently read the book, this is a pretty simplistic view. What if I were bisexual? (I'm not, but nothing I said would have ruled that out). Someone else made some vaguely homophobic comments after yours...sorry to disappoint, but homosexuality doesn't make me uncomfortable, neither do I view it negatively, and I wouldn't use "gay" pejoratively. That seems like something that people who are actually insecure about their sexuality would do. Such as, you know, people who think they need to pay for sex.

Anyway, I still haven't seen a good moral, ethical or even really practical defense of p4p in here, other than "shit is convenient." Which...okay, but yeah, let's take this deeper! Also would like to hear more from User#16452 as she's offering the only female perspective in here so far. That doesn't make her more or less qualified, but her opinion still has value.

I never said that you couldn't enjoy the book, nor did I say that being gay is a bad thing, nor indeed, did I say this is all that happens in the book!

What I did say was that it just seeemed odd to name yourself after him when your thing seems to be picking up women specifically, from what I understand. It's as if I had called myself Mother Teresa, who died a virgin. The name does not match the interests on this board. Even if I were a huge supporter of Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity, I still would not pick it for this board. Anyway, just my views of the matter.

How does insecure about sexuality = need to pay for sex?

Also, you nicely avoided the point about the love interest committing suicide after being badly treated

 

[just4fun]

Let's be a bit more specific and stark: Do you like and eat chocolate? See http://www.foodispower.org/slavery-chocolate/

Now first, let me be clear that I am NOT saying that the abuse and exploitation of women in p4p is OK or can be ignored because people, often even children, are abused and exploited in other commercial activities. Something that is wrong does not become right because other things are wrong, even if there are a lot of them or even if they are worse...a type of argument that @Sinapse appeared to be making a couple of times in the "does approaching women bother them?" thread, but maybe wasn't.

What I am saying is that we all need to deal with problems of this type routinely in our daily lives, and I can see no reason that anyone is morally obligated to react to these immoral aspects of p4p in any different way than they do with similar immoral aspects of other commercial activity, like buying chocolate candy for example.

Moreover it isn't clear to me that mongers are any more obligated to work against the exploitation and abuse of women in the commercial sex industry than non-mongers. Do those who buy and eat chocolate have a greater obligation to fight against the child slavery and exploitation in that industry than people who don't consume chocolate? In the face of such vast wrongs, it seems to me that we are all obligated to do what (little) we can.

So, what can one do to oppose the abuse and exploitation of women in the commercial sex industry? The single most effective and important approach, imo, is to support and advocate the legalization of prostitution. It is precisely because so many people *feel* that it is wrong for consenting adults to sell sex that it is illegal, and it is precisely its illegality that encourages the involvement of criminal elements in the industry and allows their abuses to remain semi-hidden and hard to suppress legally.

For example, if a monger encounters a sex worker who appears to be coerced and abused, why can he not report the situation to the police? The answer is largely because he has committed a crime in paying for sex and so has a strong motivation to avoid the involvement of law enforcement? And why is paying for sex illegal...because a lot of people agree with @Dorian Gray and @Sinapse et al. and *feel* that sex is not a commodity and wish to impose their *feelings* on others by confusing their *feelings* with absolute morality, i.e., morality that should apply to everyone and be enforced by legal means.

This is not theory. As someone who has had plenty of commercial sex experiences in countries where it is legal (Australia, Germany...), I can assure you that legalization makes a huge difference. That said, it definitely does not solve the problem, far from it sadly, but it helps...a lot. Eating chocolate is legal, as are the things @meiji mentions in the quote above, and the abuses still exist, but there would be much less chance of doing anything about them...of even knowing about them if consuming chocolate became a crime.

Bottom line: Monger and non-monger alike should push hard for legalization of all consensual sex work. Period.

There is more that mongers can do by virtue of their participation in p4p, but this post is already too long. I'll leave that topic for another post.

-Ww

Post of the Year (imho)

 

[just4fun]

Gaming, also known as "talking to women with the intent of sleeping with them," is pretty much what ALL men do. In this way, I think that gaming and p4p kind of ARE the only two options.. with the possible third option of never talking to anybody you don't know and only going after women who come to you (maybe we can call it the "Wallflower option"), which doesn't sound very promising.

I mean, basically ALL men are out there, whether it is at the bar or near the work water cooler, trying to talk women into bed. The only thing that designates someone as a "gamer" is that they actively attempt to improve and reflect on their interactions, and perhaps are a bit more proactive about seeking women out. What other options do you see?

Want another option? Here ya go.....

 

[just4fun]

Hahaha, I approve of this.

And I'll be damned if I don't have an excellent tan and healthy Vitamin D levels from being outside! The only thing I'd add is the PUA also has a healthy stable of fish who will gladly swim over on short notice should he prove to not catch something or feel to lazy to walk down to the river any given day ^^

Skin cancer is more like it.......and more than likely fukushima fish on the end of ur line......better wear 2 plastic bags if ur taking that home my friend......you have no idea where it's been swimming......

 

[Sinapse]

Skin cancer is more like it.......and more than likely fukushima fish on the end of ur line......better wear 2 plastic bags if ur taking that home my friend......you have no idea where it's been swimming......

I think the fukushima fish is the totally unregulated fish that everyone bangs relentlessly and Japanese salarymen pay to "eat" 生 and you roll in there getting their sloppy seconds..

Trying hard to keep the analogy going...... Struggling.... But did you really attempt to make the point that being outside is bad for you and women you meet in the daytime are somehow dirtier than hookers? Hahaha

 

[TAG Manager]

Please take your moral concerns and place them where they are actually needed.

I was stupid in believing that people could have some common sense, but how wrong I was.

 

[TAG Manager]

We're opening this one again... Please keep it civil and sensible.