First post here so it 's a little long, mainly to avoid wasting time on questions that can be answered before they're even asked. Also, I'm not sure if this belongs in the dating section? There's so much overlap between 'PUA' and dating that I'm not sure which is more appropriate.
Background
I'm 32. Six-years-a-gaijin. Coming out of a 3+ year relationship so I'm rusty. I've only been in 3 relationships and had a smattering of hookups here in Japan, all from online dating. I hate bars/clubs and I'm not a drinker outside of some wine or beer with a meal. The common denominator of my previous successes has been the attitude of the women: They were all students or freeters with a lot of free time to text or set up dates, they were proactive about reciprocating kino, and they were super easy to read. Even the girls I had bad or lackluster dates with were easy to read, and I knew I was going to get ghosted before they even did it. Back then, I never experienced ghosting after a good date. Only after bad or mediocre dates.
At the time I really didn't have much value on the dating market. I'm now tenured in a secure, well-paying job, bilingual, and I spend a lot of time in the gym and pursuing my own hobbies and interests, a few of which have gotten me quite a bit of female attention on top of being relatively attractive. I have seen my value increase, but I can't seem to do anything with it, and I am becoming demoralized by my inability to gauge interest because everyone I've gone out with recently has been extremely passive and/or a Busy OL. Unlike before, I cannot tell when they will ghost me, and I end up ghosted after some amazing dates. I don't know how much of the problem is me just sucking, and how much of it is a cultural thing, and that's why I'm here.
Specifics
I'm easing back into the scene with Tinder since it interferes less with my routine and I dislike stereotypical nightlife. Started in October, got 100 matches. Solid response rate. Solid date rate if I actually ask them out. I don't ask a lot of them out because they're stupid boring, or I can't squeeze them into my schedule. If I were less picky and had more time I'd probably be going out twice a week but whatever. My dates are always something active and conducive to kino: billiards, rollerskating, etc. Occasionally I'll have just dinner and drinks the first time then do the fun active stuff the second date. But let's move to a specific example:
Casper
Let's call her "Casper." 26 or 27, OL working fairly late on weeknights, recently moved to Tokyo from the countryside. Zero appeal to her Tinder profile. Literally just half of her face and "I want to make friends" and that's it. Super plain. Not sure why I swiped right but I did. Matched and set up a same day date. She specifically said she was going home (alone) that night. Okay, whatever. Went for dinner and a couple drinks. She was super plain, but attractive in her plainness, with a fun, interesting personality. LTR material from my perspective, so I went less hookup approach and more date approach. We both had a lot of fun talking and I felt a connection that I rarely feel on dates. I did some leg-rub kino under the table and some light hand kino. Clear attraction in her eyes and caught a triangle gaze a couple times from across the table, but couldn't take action on it. She brought up how she hates "bad guys who try to make her miss the last train." Okay....plausible deniability....whatever. Enthusiastic interest in a second date, we went home fairly early. She proactively sent me her LINE info to take things off Tinder (and she unmatched/quit shortly after, apparently). We set up the second date two-weeks out. Now, I'm not much of a texter and only use it to set up dates, but her responses were always incredibly slow. One or two texts a day, always between 6-9am or 11pm-1am. Three days for her to get back to me and finalize our date. Compared to my past experiences with students and freeters this was just baffling to me. Still, we had the second date.
Second date, roller skating then billiards. I turned up the kino. Way up. But she was extremely shy about reciprocating. She was still having a blast, laughing and smiling from ear-to-ear, caught the triangle gaze a few times, but she was so shy about PDA and really didn't contribute much to the sexual vibe other than that triangle gaze and a couple sheepish touches from her. In the past most girls would at least contribute to proximity so I could lean in for a kiss. Didn't help that I was getting distracted by sleepiness and a nauseated stomach from something I ate, so I let the kiss slide. Still, really good vibes. She was enthusiastic about meeting again. Texted me "I want to play billiards with you again" with 500 exclamation marks. Tried to set up a date but she was busy the days I offered and said she wasn't sure about weekday nights yet. New Years, travel plans with her family, borderline black company, all reasonable excuses and her texts still seemed positive. I checked in after the holidays settled down and got a positive response. Invited her out again. Ghosted.
Conclusion
This is not a unique experience. I have gone out with many Caspers. The signals of interest on the date are quite strong, but still they're passive and don't put much effort into a dance that requires two active participants. The signals between dates are the complete opposite of the signals on the dates. It's totally different than the experiences I had years ago.
Am I really expected to do 150% of the work? Is a kiss/bang close that important on the first date? Is it normal for OLs to be so busy and distant? Is it normal to be ghosted after great dates? It's making me very jaded and distrustful; almost reclusive because I know that I'll just get ghosted anyway no matter what I do, so what's even the point? How much of this is cultural crap that I just have to deal with, and how much of it is just me that can be fixed?
Sorry for the long post, but I'm extremely frustrated about the situation.
Background
I'm 32. Six-years-a-gaijin. Coming out of a 3+ year relationship so I'm rusty. I've only been in 3 relationships and had a smattering of hookups here in Japan, all from online dating. I hate bars/clubs and I'm not a drinker outside of some wine or beer with a meal. The common denominator of my previous successes has been the attitude of the women: They were all students or freeters with a lot of free time to text or set up dates, they were proactive about reciprocating kino, and they were super easy to read. Even the girls I had bad or lackluster dates with were easy to read, and I knew I was going to get ghosted before they even did it. Back then, I never experienced ghosting after a good date. Only after bad or mediocre dates.
At the time I really didn't have much value on the dating market. I'm now tenured in a secure, well-paying job, bilingual, and I spend a lot of time in the gym and pursuing my own hobbies and interests, a few of which have gotten me quite a bit of female attention on top of being relatively attractive. I have seen my value increase, but I can't seem to do anything with it, and I am becoming demoralized by my inability to gauge interest because everyone I've gone out with recently has been extremely passive and/or a Busy OL. Unlike before, I cannot tell when they will ghost me, and I end up ghosted after some amazing dates. I don't know how much of the problem is me just sucking, and how much of it is a cultural thing, and that's why I'm here.
Specifics
I'm easing back into the scene with Tinder since it interferes less with my routine and I dislike stereotypical nightlife. Started in October, got 100 matches. Solid response rate. Solid date rate if I actually ask them out. I don't ask a lot of them out because they're stupid boring, or I can't squeeze them into my schedule. If I were less picky and had more time I'd probably be going out twice a week but whatever. My dates are always something active and conducive to kino: billiards, rollerskating, etc. Occasionally I'll have just dinner and drinks the first time then do the fun active stuff the second date. But let's move to a specific example:
Casper
Let's call her "Casper." 26 or 27, OL working fairly late on weeknights, recently moved to Tokyo from the countryside. Zero appeal to her Tinder profile. Literally just half of her face and "I want to make friends" and that's it. Super plain. Not sure why I swiped right but I did. Matched and set up a same day date. She specifically said she was going home (alone) that night. Okay, whatever. Went for dinner and a couple drinks. She was super plain, but attractive in her plainness, with a fun, interesting personality. LTR material from my perspective, so I went less hookup approach and more date approach. We both had a lot of fun talking and I felt a connection that I rarely feel on dates. I did some leg-rub kino under the table and some light hand kino. Clear attraction in her eyes and caught a triangle gaze a couple times from across the table, but couldn't take action on it. She brought up how she hates "bad guys who try to make her miss the last train." Okay....plausible deniability....whatever. Enthusiastic interest in a second date, we went home fairly early. She proactively sent me her LINE info to take things off Tinder (and she unmatched/quit shortly after, apparently). We set up the second date two-weeks out. Now, I'm not much of a texter and only use it to set up dates, but her responses were always incredibly slow. One or two texts a day, always between 6-9am or 11pm-1am. Three days for her to get back to me and finalize our date. Compared to my past experiences with students and freeters this was just baffling to me. Still, we had the second date.
Second date, roller skating then billiards. I turned up the kino. Way up. But she was extremely shy about reciprocating. She was still having a blast, laughing and smiling from ear-to-ear, caught the triangle gaze a few times, but she was so shy about PDA and really didn't contribute much to the sexual vibe other than that triangle gaze and a couple sheepish touches from her. In the past most girls would at least contribute to proximity so I could lean in for a kiss. Didn't help that I was getting distracted by sleepiness and a nauseated stomach from something I ate, so I let the kiss slide. Still, really good vibes. She was enthusiastic about meeting again. Texted me "I want to play billiards with you again" with 500 exclamation marks. Tried to set up a date but she was busy the days I offered and said she wasn't sure about weekday nights yet. New Years, travel plans with her family, borderline black company, all reasonable excuses and her texts still seemed positive. I checked in after the holidays settled down and got a positive response. Invited her out again. Ghosted.
Conclusion
This is not a unique experience. I have gone out with many Caspers. The signals of interest on the date are quite strong, but still they're passive and don't put much effort into a dance that requires two active participants. The signals between dates are the complete opposite of the signals on the dates. It's totally different than the experiences I had years ago.
Am I really expected to do 150% of the work? Is a kiss/bang close that important on the first date? Is it normal for OLs to be so busy and distant? Is it normal to be ghosted after great dates? It's making me very jaded and distrustful; almost reclusive because I know that I'll just get ghosted anyway no matter what I do, so what's even the point? How much of this is cultural crap that I just have to deal with, and how much of it is just me that can be fixed?
Sorry for the long post, but I'm extremely frustrated about the situation.
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