Rampage In Fukuoka: 7 Snls In 3 Days!

[Curacao]

To go back to the car sale analogy for a moment, the thing that trouble me about a lot of pua is this: if a car salesman promised me a lot of aftercare (guarantees, repairs, checkups etc) and I decided to buy the car on that basis, and then that aftercare turned out to be a fiction and the salesman stopped returning my calls, I would be pretty aggrieved - and I would probably have a decent claim in most jurisdictions for some sort of compensation.

So I think it is a bit disingenuous to argue that just because a woman agrees to have sex (or, as seems increasingly apparent, to not resist too much) she knew what she was getting into so she bears an equal portion of responsibility. If you lie to someone to get them to fuck you I think that is a bit rapey, personally.

(Which isn't to say I think that the broad church of pua is intrinsically wrong! If you are meeting a ton of women and being up front about wanting to fuck and forget I have no problem with that.)

 

[User#16452]

So, if a car salesman sales me a car, when I was reluctant or resisted his offer in any way, he should be charged with theft. He forced me to buy the car, and should be in jail.

Got it. I like this type of illogical argument. I can have my cake and eat it too. I'm going to have that guy I bought a watch from arrested. I was hesitant, but he persuaded me, thus "forced" me to buy it.

We've spoken about trying to compare two completely different situations before. Unfortunately, it still does not work. Keep tryin' though!

But, to go along with the one you mention, when you buy something you take your money out of your wallet. You have to make a deliberate action for this to happen. If a woman is resisting having sex, this is the same as not taking out your wallet. The salesperson would have to take the money from your wallet themselves for the transaction to go through. Reason enough to call the cops I think.

 

[Solong]

To go back to the car sale analogy for a moment, the thing that trouble me about a lot of pua is this: if a car salesman promised me a lot of aftercare (guarantees, repairs, checkups etc) and I decided to buy the car on that basis, and then that aftercare turned out to be a fiction and the salesman stopped returning my calls, I would be pretty aggrieved - and I would probably have a decent claim in most jurisdictions for some sort of compensation.

So I think it is a bit disingenuous to argue that just because a woman agrees to have sex (or, as seems increasingly apparent, to not resist too much) she knew what she was getting into so she bears an equal portion of responsibility. If you lie to someone to get them to fuck you I think that is a bit rapey, personally.

(Which isn't to say I think that the broad church of pua is intrinsically wrong! If you are meeting a ton of women and being up front about wanting to fuck and forget I have no problem with that.)

What you are saying doesn't make any sense. Since when does PUA or even a salesman the equal to lying, false promises, etc... A person can persuade you, without lying to you.

And since when does lying = rape? That's nuts. So, if a woman lied to me about being married or didn't tell me, I can charge her with "rape" too? Hell, we can charge a salesman with "rape" too, because the buyer can't be held accountable for understanding what he/she bought or reading a contract.

Furthermore, why are peope here perpetually blaming the man, when women are equally accountable, and often doing the same level of deception or tomfoolery?

Plenty of women, if not about the equal amount, are lying and deceptive. Adult women are not mindless children, who in no way can be held accountable for what they choose to do.

 

[Curacao]

Yeah people who lie to other people to fuck them are, in my opinion, wrong - whether they are male, female, Japanese or not. I am specifically referring to sinapse's evasiveness when jblair asked him if he was up front with the women he is fucking and it seems that he is not - or, at best he seems to think that telling someone he lives in Tokyo should be assumed to mean that he doesn't intend to see them again. I think that is pretty poor.

Edit: and I don't mean to rag on sinapse. I am not perfect and I don't expect others to be. I am just voicing my opinion about pickup and some of the things that trouble me about some aspects of it. Nobody has to agree with me or anything

 

[Vulkan]

the problem with assuming resisting is just part of courtship is that it can be misinterpreted.

I didn't say that one should assume that it is part if courtship, but that it can be. Whether it's real resistance or just play hard to get depends on the person and the situation.

My understanding of "resisting" in Pua is more related to break the resistance coming from social stigma than forcing sex from a lady.
Well i have no interest in having a lady have sex with me against her will anyway...

 

[Sinapse]

Yeah people who lie to other people to fuck them are, in my opinion, wrong - whether they are male, female, Japanese or not. I am specifically referring to sinapse's evasiveness when jblair asked him if he was up front with the women he is fucking and it seems that he is not - or, at best he seems to think that telling someone he lives in Tokyo should be assumed to mean that he doesn't intend to see them again. I think that is pretty poor.

Edit: and I don't mean to rag on sinapse. I am not perfect and I don't expect others to be. I am just voicing my opinion about pickup and some of the things that trouble me about some aspects of it. Nobody has to agree with me or anything

It's a bit ridiculous to require people to lay out exactly their plan for the future of their relationship before sex happens. As I mentioned before, sometimes I want to see them again, sometimes not, sometimes I still haven't decided. There's no need to lay everything out plain as day.. and few people ever do anyway. This isn't common behavior among anyone I know - gamer or not. For all I know the girl doesn't want anything to do with me after we have sex, but I'm not going to dig it out of her before we have sex. If she really wants to know, she can ask and we can have that conversation. But IMO there is nothing wrong with just having sex - it's something as simple as eating or breathing, something we were born to do. Any concern about relationships and what is expected after is only piled on by society and unnecessary.

in Japanese culture a "no" is very rarely delivered directly, firmly and explicitly (in any context, not just sexual or dating ones),

I would argue that the arena of dating, love, and sexual advances is the one arena where all or nearly all Japanese women are MORE than able to say no to something they don't want. If you don't believe me - try it! They are very strong minded and powerful when they actually don't want to do something with a guy. They won't let themselves be alone with him, they won't enter any hotel or house, and they will get away or push him back if they don't want any sexual advances. Believe me - these girls are NOT meek and timid. They can and will make a big scene if they don't like you. I think there's a bit of coddling and trying to shame me for not treating these girls as if they are little precious dolls unable to make their wishes clear. Trust me when I say they very much can.

I think people are getting worried about the token resistance of women, and that makes sense. But in reality, the line is pretty clear and you can certainly tell if she is seriously resisting and wanting it to stop or if she is just half-assing it and putting up some token resistance but she wants it. This again isn't something which comes over text very well, so in practice we should err on the side of caution as much as possible, as @Wwanderer mentioned, and always give the girl an easy out. In fact, often this acknowledgment of her freedom to leave, verbally, is enough to relax her and feel comfortable enough to get down to sex.

 

[Vulkan]

That is definitely true and a significant point, but equally one should also remember that in Japanese culture a "no" is very rarely delivered directly, firmly and explicitly (in any context, not just sexual or dating ones),
Ww

My undestanding of the word consensus is that it can be reached for a "yes" or for a "no". Thats at least the french meaning.

To read the unsaid correctly in japan is a skill itself and highly depends of the context and people involved. While i agree that your conservative approach is the safest, i wouldn't day that it's always appropriate... Unless you're the "kuuki yomenai " always forcing your way kind of guy

 

[User#16452]

I didn't say that one should assume that it is part if courtship, but that it can be. Whether it's real resistance or just play hard to get depends on the person and the situation.

My understanding of "resisting" in Pua is more related to break the resistance coming from social stigma than forcing sex from a lady.
Well i have no interest in having a lady have sex with me against her will anyway...

I just do not believe in the "social stigma" argument. If it is something that goes against her morals, you shouldn't be forcing her do it.

A big problem with PUAs is that they assume nearly all women care about "social stigma". I really don't think it as common as they like to pretend. Also, it makes no sense for a woman to "put up a front" when she is alone with the guy.

In fact, often this acknowledgment of her freedom to leave, verbally, is enough to relax her and feel comfortable enough to get down to sex.

You don't seem to have realised how dangerous it can for a woman to be alone with a guy she doesn't know. Men will always be stronger than woman and when you say things like "most guys would be angry at this" you make her feel obligated to do as you want, whether this is what she really wants herself. If a woman is resisting you, this is her way of telling you she is not interested without saying it verbally.

Furthermore, why are peope here perpetually blaming the man, when women are equally accountable, and often doing the same level of deception or tomfoolery?

Plenty of women, if not about the equal amount, are lying and deceptive. Adult women are not mindless children, who in no way can be held accountable for what they choose to do.

You forgot to mention feminism. That's surely to blame for, eh, something.

 

[Sinapse]

You don't seem to have realised how dangerous it can for a woman to be alone with a guy she doesn't know.

I very much do. This is why they sometimes don't come in. But if they have come in, they're usually up for a romp in the bed ^^

There was another thread where we pretty much all came to the agreement that, for better or worse, a man and a woman going alone together to a private room or apartment are pretty much only going for one reason. Most people in Japan understand these. If a woman still doesn't get it and wants to leave when she realizes sex is on the plate - she very much can. There's no restraining.. I even directly suggest they leave if they feel uncomfortable.

I just do not believe in the "social stigma" argument.

Well... why does this not surprise me, given your line of work . I'm sure you've gotten over the social stigma... out of necessity, if nothing else. Cognitive dissonance would be a painful master otherwise.

 

[User#16452]

Well... why does this not surprise me, given your line of work . I'm sure you've gotten over the social stigma... out of necessity, if nothing else. Cognitive dissonance would be a painful master otherwise.

Huh? I don't believe in the argument from having interacted with others, not because of my personal views on the subject.

 

[Midlife Crisis]

You could argue, that having been present for kissing and having sex with many hundreds of women makes me a better judge of female behavior in that particular arena (at least from a scientific standpoint) - after all, you have intimate knowledge of yourself, but it's still just one data point.

@Sinapse Actually, from a scientific standpoint, you are in fact also just one data point (you only have your own singular SUBJECTIVE experience of many women). On the other hand, an actual woman has the OBJECTIVE experience of being a woman that you have no possibility of understanding no matter how many of them you somehow get into your bed. At least from a scientific standpoint.

 

[Midlife Crisis]

But, too many women make the assumption any and every guy approaching must be up to something bad or "criminal". In ANY situation... Panic and RUN!!! Not every place is Roppongi or Shibuya. We have to realize where we are at and who is actually talking to us.

Another element of the problem is many Japanese women don't know how to distinguish different situations or when there is an actual threat. For the ignorant, threat = anything different.

This "paranoia" and "hysteria" can be too excessive and not matching the situation. It is like if somebody asks a person for a lighter to smoke a cigarette, and instead they panicked and pulled out a gun and shot them.

I don't get where "rape-y" or "kind of rape" comes in. That's where I think a feminist mindset contaminants interactions between men and women, to the point of insanity. Like the guy (yet somehow not the female) has to ask permission for every action, and as if the female is a child, who doesn't have a brain to verbally say "no" or make decisions. Particularly dangerous, is the concept that anything initiated by the guy or not specifically defined, is "rape-y". However, somehow this isn't so for women.

So, based on your own logic, women are not children, have brains, and can verbally say "no", but if they decide with their brains that they should get away from a particular man, then she therefore must be "ignorant", "hysterical", in a "panic", have "paranoia", and be unable "to distinguish different situations or when there is an actual threat". Unfortunately, based on your track record, I hold absolutely no hope you will actually understand or acknowledge these obvious contradictions.

Also, you continue to demonstrate a Rush Limbaugh level of understanding of feminism (i.e. it's a dirty word to blame everything on). You think "a feminist mindset contaminants interactions between men and women"?? So the fact that 1 in 4 girls in the US have been sexually assaulted by the age of 18 is because of feminism? No wait, no women has ever personally told you that, so that can't be true, right? Do you not know or understand that THIS is why "somehow" guys actions seem "particularly dangerous" and "somehow this isn't so for women". Do you really not know this? It's hard to tell because the primary rhetorical device you use are "straw man" arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

See prime example below:

If a salesman tries to get me to buy a car, I'm reluctant, but I decide to buy the car anyway then am I "forced" or "he stole my money"?

An adult woman can make it clear when she doesn't want to have sex. Reluctance, is not "rape".

If my girlfriend wants to suck my penis, and I resist (or play coy), then let her do it, does that mean she "raped" me?

"Resistance" or "reluctance", can simply be a temporary state of indecision and be relatively vague. This isn't "rape". Forcing a person, is rape. When she says "no" definitely, is rape. Turning any sexual play or interaction between heterosexual couples, into "rape-y", is to rush head first into the insanity of "all sex is rape". Because, any boundary between what is or isn't is blurred or distorted.

The use force to make her do something

"Resistance" is NOT "reluctance". Resistance is exactly what you describe as saying "no" or offering enough push-back to require "force" in response. And equating sexual consent with buying a car is probably the worst and least convincing straw man argument I've witnessed in a long long time.

 

[Wwanderer]

So, based on your own logic, women are not children, have brains, and can verbally say "no", but if they decide with their brains that they should get away from a particular man, then she therefore must be "ignorant", "hysterical", in a "panic", have "paranoia", and be unable "to distinguish different situations or when there is an actual threat".

Precisely.

I wish I could like this more than once. Actually, I wish I had written it myself!

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

My understanding of "resisting" in Pua is more related to break the resistance coming from social stigma than forcing sex from a lady.

I don't doubt that, nor do I think @Sinapse or anyone else involved in this conversation *intends* to force sex on a woman (rape her, in plain language).

I also believe that it is usually, a very large majority of the time in fact, possible for a sensible guy to correctly judge the difference between token or playful or passing (due to initial indecision) resistance from an intention to actually refuse. However, I think that it is quite possible for errors to occur in such judgements, especially when lust, alcohol, extreme fatigue (due weekend long "rampages"), cultural differences, dealing with a stranger, perceptual biases due to strong self-interest, an arrogant overconfidence in one's own perspective/understandings etc are in play. People, including guys who are highly experienced and good at picking up women (note my avoidance of the meaningless three letter acronym here), make mistakes sometimes; they can be wrong; they are only human. And the main point I'd like to add to this discussion and the arguments others have made is that an extremely low error rate is still an intolerable one. It can be put this way - in a guy's whole life history of interactions with women, how many (date) rapes is it acceptable for him to commit due to mistaking sincere refusal for insincere resistance or temporary indecisiveness? For me personally, I'd want high confidence that the number will be zero. I think you have to be cautious to an extreme that would seem absurd viewed on a case-by-case basis to achieve that level of confidence if you do a lot of SNLs and such.

-Ww

 

[astonmartini99]

Sorry to disappoint, but I lived it, it did happen. Got photo evidence and everything. Is it so hard to believe that girls like sex?

Yes.

 

[Sinapse]

@Sinapse Actually, from a scientific standpoint, you are in fact also just one data point (you only have your own singular SUBJECTIVE experience of many women). On the other hand, an actual woman has the OBJECTIVE experience of being a woman that you have no possibility of understanding no matter how many of them you somehow get into your bed. At least from a scientific standpoint.

A person's experience is anything but objective. Actually, it's extremely subjective - the definition of, actually.

Objective:
"not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based onf acts; unbiased"
"dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book."

Technically it's impossible for a single person to be "objective" so neither User#16452 nor myself are or can be. Perhaps the word you're looking for is empirical - but both of us have that kind of knowledge.

My point was: I haven't been there while guys have escalated on User#16452 (sometimes uncomfortably) and User#16452 hasn't been there when I have escalated on tons of girls. Therefore, User#16452 takes her own experience - such as one she described as unsavory - and cautions me against doing the same. So far so good (with the obvious exception that I'm not the same as the guys in her past bad experiences). The problem being when she has no experience or understanding of how other women react to escalation to fast sex. Since we all know User#16452 doesn't have a problem with fast sex, is more than capable of voicing her opinion, and doesn't actually offer token resistance herself, it only makes sense that she thinks a girl offering up token resistance is offering actual resistance. In reality, it's VERY clear which is being offered. Token resistance is offered by playful batting or a single "yada" with a half-turn away while not using any physical power to push away or move themselves away. Basically, it's very apparent which is which, and as long as you're not physically restraining her or forcing yourself onto her, and you give her a chance to leave whenever she wants to - there's nothing wrong with making moves on a girl. If the girl is told of her freedom to leave and chooses not to stand up and leave the room despite not being restrained or impeded in any way - I think her (hypothetical) claim for "being raped" is on VERY tenuous ground.

I remember when I came around to figuring this out - it was after I was being nice and respectful upon arrival in the country, and thought these kinds of token resistance were sincere. I would stop everything and not try again. I talked to girls and in their own words they would later tell me that they were expecting, wanting to hook up with me and they were confused when I didn't do it. They ended the night thinking I didn't like them. I of course volunteered to "make it right" by banging them next time, but sadly, most didn't come back again. Often in Japan if you fumble the ball at the goal line, it's game over and they don't see you as a man.

This is how Japanese women interact with men. The culture has a huge emphasis on women not being sexual agents, never being the initiator, and always offering up resistance. I had a girlfriend who would say "yada yada" during sex for the entire time we dated. She would resist me taking her underwear off. If I stopped (I was annoyed at her resistance so I would often just be like "Ok, forget it" and roll over and fall asleep), the next day she would send me a text message like "Why didn't you have sex with me last night?" and be legitimately confused. This is a VERY REAL phenomenon. If you don't have a lot of experience with Japanese women you can still see it in porn, which, although not real, does reflect and influence how people behave in bed.

I think we have to trust that, if you give her the opportunity to leave at any point she wants, and you do it without judgment or anger in your voice or thoughts, and she doesn't leave, that she wants to be there. Therefore, not rape. In other words, since "yada" and turning the cheek are commonplace in Japanese society at least, the way you make sure you're not raping girls is by telling them they can leave and never physically restraining them. You win her trust by offering her an out, and just like in S+M play where the M has the power because they have the safe word and know they can stop it at any time, the girl knows she can leave at any time, which allows her to relax and continue with the interaction, safe in the knowledge she can call it off if she ever feels uncomfortable. And some do, and I let them go. Most don't, and smile from ear to ear after sex and snuggle in.

I think its funny how I'm being simultaneously being accused of being a possible rapist AND being such a good lover and conversation partner that women want to date me after sex and I should clear up any doubt that I'm not going to GF them. Which is it? Are these girls in love with me or in horror? I think the answer is most commonly in the middle - they like me, and it was a fun night, but they don't have an expectations that I'm going to be taking them out to Christmas dinner. Positioning yourself as a sexual partner from the beginning rather than romantic partner has its advantages.

 

[bruv]

Yup. Word.
I don't know if the story is true cuz I wasn't there. But I do know that women change their minds in a second, blurt out 'we're not having sex' when the situation is finally presented and the adrenaline kicks in. In my experience usually the ones who want it most, after they've fantasised and built it up in their minds so much and need a little calming down. No biggie, but a snap judgement and reaction to just her words and not the context ends up with disappointment for BOTH of us. Trust me I've been there.

And yeah sometimes women do or say one thing specifically to absolve any responsibility on their part while secretly hoping the opposite happens. I recently had a weird streak of 'maguro' girls. One of them specifically said after sex, that they loved being manhandled and moved, and shocked themselves at how much they loved losing control over their body to me.

Words are a mofo, and sex is a weird thing to describe. Youre gonna lose tone of voices, expressions, the general vibe in the room, etc. We fill in the blanks with our own imaginations, that's good writing actually, except that everyone does it with already preconceived opinions. In this case, about Sinapse and PUA.

 

[Sinapse]

Alright, since a visual example is much clearer than a verbal one (especially online) here is a video I found. I purposefully picked one where a girl is doing the escalation, but the pattern is almost exactly the same if it was a guy (and you can find many such videos with a man doing it if you prefer). Plus who doesn't like to see chicks getting into it!! ^^

http://xhamster.com/movies/2002168/lesbian_nanpa_pick_up_29.html

You probably only need to watch the first 5 minutes to realize what I'm talking about. At around 2 minute mark the girl says "Yada yada" but makes no effort to move or push the other girl away and at the end, is kissing back. At around 5minute mark they voluntarily take off their skirt but "resist" when it comes to taking off the bra.. before giving in.

Now maybe this is fake or staged or whatever, but the point is the same. This is how Japanese girls act and respond to escalation. Over text on a forum where we don't know anybody it makes sense to raise a red flag when you hear "resistance" but the WAY they resist makes it clear that it's not sincere, but rather just a token "yada" before turning into and loving it. This is how moves are made here, and it is clear if she is REALLY not wanting to be there the protest will be loud and physical and moving towards the door. They very much are capable of a strong no.

 

[User#16452]

Therefore, User#16452 takes her own experience - such as one she described as unsavory - and cautions me against doing the same. So far so good (with the obvious exception that I'm not the same as the guys in her past bad experiences). The problem being when she has no experience or understanding of how other women react to escalation to fast sex. Since we all know User#16452 doesn't have a problem with fast sex, is more than capable of voicing her opinion, and doesn't actually offer token resistance herself, it only makes sense that she thinks a girl offering up token resistance is offering actual resistance.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I did have a sex life before becoming an escort, hard as it might be to believe.

I think its funny how I'm being simultaneously being accused of being a possible rapist AND being such a good lover and conversation partner that women want to date me after sex and I should clear up any doubt that I'm not going to GF them. Which is it? Are these girls in love with me or in horror? I think the answer is most commonly in the middle - they like me, and it was a fun night, but they don't have an expectations that I'm going to be taking them out to Christmas dinner. Positioning yourself as a sexual partner from the beginning rather than romantic partner has its advantages.

Don't break an arm jerking yourself off. No one said anything about you being a good lover. It is worth noting that the ones that you don't mention resistance for are the ones who seem to want to see you again. No one who shows resistance wants another date, hmmm....

Also, only telling the woman that you don't live in Fukuoka is not positioning yourself as a sexual partner rather than romantic. It is positioning yourself as someone who does not live in Fukuoka.

Alright, since a visual example is much clearer than a verbal one (especially online) here is a video I found. I purposefully picked one where a girl is doing the escalation, but the pattern is almost exactly the same if it was a guy (and you can find many such videos with a man doing it if you prefer). Plus who doesn't like to see chicks getting into it!! ^^

http://xhamster.com/movies/2002168/lesbian_nanpa_pick_up_29.html

You probably only need to watch the first 5 minutes to realize what I'm talking about. At around 2 minute mark the girl says "Yada yada" but makes no effort to move or push the other girl away and at the end, is kissing back. At around 5minute mark they voluntarily take off their skirt but "resist" when it comes to taking off the bra.. before giving in.

Now maybe this is fake or staged or whatever, but the point is the same. This is how Japanese girls act and respond to escalation. Over text on a forum where we don't know anybody it makes sense to raise a red flag when you hear "resistance" but the WAY they resist makes it clear that it's not sincere, but rather just a token "yada" before turning into and loving it. This is how moves are made here, and it is clear if she is REALLY not wanting to be there the protest will be loud and physical and moving towards the door. They very much are capable of a strong no.

All I see is discomfort. The women really seem like they don't want to be there.

 

[just4fun]

So, if a car salesman sales me a car, when I was reluctant or resisted his offer in any way, he should be charged with theft. He forced me to buy the car, and should be in jail.

Got it. I like this type of illogical argument. I can have my cake and eat it too. I'm going to have that guy I bought a watch from arrested. I was hesitant, but he persuaded me, thus "forced" me to buy it.

I really tried to stay out of this......I do read every post as you see the likes I post.......and I do side with one side here more than the other at times but this analogy I totally disagree with. First of all "I fucking hate salespeople"!!! If a salesperson starts bugging me.....I just leave.....there's more than 1 car dealership on the planet.

 

[Sinapse]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I did have a sex life before becoming an escort, hard as it might be to believe.

Huh? Never said anything to the contrary.. this seems kinda off topic

Also, only telling the woman that you don't live in Fukuoka is not positioning yourself as a sexual partner rather than romantic. It is positioning yourself as someone who does not live in Fukuoka.

Again... unrelated, as you mentioned. Why try to make a connection where there is none?

No one who shows resistance wants another date

Now who's telling who about their own experience..

 

[Sinapse]

I really tried to stay out of this......I do read every post as you see the likes I post.......and I do side with one side her more than the other at times but this anology I totally disagree with. First of all "I fucking hate salespeople"!!! If a salesperson starts bugging me.....I just leave.....there's more than 1 car dealership on the planet.

I agree.. I think sales is not a great metaphor for pickup since it assumes the man is "selling" and the woman is "buying". I prefer to think of it as art or dance, or something creative and expressive instead.

 

[User#16452]

Huh? Never said anything to the contrary.. this seems kinda off topic



Again... unrelated, as you mentioned. Why try to make a connection where there is none?



Now who's telling who about their own experience..

Sigh. Please read my post before you reply and try to witty. Now, I know it might be enjoyable for you to be quick, but it's no fun for the other participants

I mentioned that I had a sex life before becoming an escort because you assumed that I have no experience of a guy trying to escalate and get fast sex when it is not wanted, whether on myself or someone else.

Next, you were claiming earlier in the thread that by telling women that you don't live locally that this makes it clear that they shouldn't expect a relationship to come from your interaction.

I told all of them I was only visiting and that I live in Tokyo. Not sure where you think they were given a wrong impression.

Lastly, as you say, I can only go with what you wrote, which I already noted.

Don't break an arm jerking yourself off. No one said anything about you being a good lover. It is worth noting that the ones that you don't mention resistance for are the ones who seem to want to see you again. No one who shows resistance wants another date, hmmm....

 

[just4fun]

A person's experience is anything but objective. Actually, it's extremely subjective - the definition of, actually.

Objective:
"not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based onf acts; unbiased"
"dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book."

Technically it's impossible for a single person to be "objective" so neither User#16452 nor myself are or can be. Perhaps the word you're looking for is empirical - but both of us have that kind of knowledge.

My point was: I haven't been there while guys have escalated on User#16452 (sometimes uncomfortably) and User#16452 hasn't been there when I have escalated on tons of girls. Therefore, User#16452 takes her own experience - such as one she described as unsavory - and cautions me against doing the same. So far so good (with the obvious exception that I'm not the same as the guys in her past bad experiences). The problem being when she has no experience or understanding of how other women react to escalation to fast sex. Since we all know User#16452 doesn't have a problem with fast sex, is more than capable of voicing her opinion, and doesn't actually offer token resistance herself, it only makes sense that she thinks a girl offering up token resistance is offering actual resistance. In reality, it's VERY clear which is being offered. Token resistance is offered by playful batting or a single "yada" with a half-turn away while not using any physical power to push away or move themselves away. Basically, it's very apparent which is which, and as long as you're not physically restraining her or forcing yourself onto her, and you give her a chance to leave whenever she wants to - there's nothing wrong with making moves on a girl. If the girl is told of her freedom to leave and chooses not to stand up and leave the room despite not being restrained or impeded in any way - I think her (hypothetical) claim for "being raped" is on VERY tenuous ground.

I remember when I came around to figuring this out - it was after I was being nice and respectful upon arrival in the country, and thought these kinds of token resistance were sincere. I would stop everything and not try again. I talked to girls and in their own words they would later tell me that they were expecting, wanting to hook up with me and they were confused when I didn't do it. They ended the night thinking I didn't like them. I of course volunteered to "make it right" by banging them next time, but sadly, most didn't come back again. Often in Japan if you fumble the ball at the goal line, it's game over and they don't see you as a man.

This is how Japanese women interact with men. The culture has a huge emphasis on women not being sexual agents, never being the initiator, and always offering up resistance. I had a girlfriend who would say "yada yada" during sex for the entire time we dated. She would resist me taking her underwear off. If I stopped (I was annoyed at her resistance so I would often just be like "Ok, forget it" and roll over and fall asleep), the next day she would send me a text message like "Why didn't you have sex with me last night?" and be legitimately confused. This is a VERY REAL phenomenon. If you don't have a lot of experience with Japanese women you can still see it in porn, which, although not real, does reflect and influence how people behave in bed.

I think we have to trust that, if you give her the opportunity to leave at any point she wants, and you do it without judgment or anger in your voice or thoughts, and she doesn't leave, that she wants to be there. Therefore, not rape. In other words, since "yada" and turning the cheek are commonplace in Japanese society at least, the way you make sure you're not raping girls is by telling them they can leave and never physically restraining them. You win her trust by offering her an out, and just like in S+M play where the M has the power because they have the safe word and know they can stop it at any time, the girl knows she can leave at any time, which allows her to relax and continue with the interaction, safe in the knowledge she can call it off if she ever feels uncomfortable. And some do, and I let them go. Most don't, and smile from ear to ear after sex and snuggle in.

I think its funny how I'm being simultaneously being accused of being a possible rapist AND being such a good lover and conversation partner that women want to date me after sex and I should clear up any doubt that I'm not going to GF them. Which is it? Are these girls in love with me or in horror? I think the answer is most commonly in the middle - they like me, and it was a fun night, but they don't have an expectations that I'm going to be taking them out to Christmas dinner. Positioning yourself as a sexual partner from the beginning rather than romantic partner has its advantages.

But if she says "Fuck-off asshole" does that still count as mild resistance?

 

[Solong]

@Sinapse Actually, from a scientific standpoint, you are in fact also just one data point (you only have your own singular SUBJECTIVE experience of many women). On the other hand, an actual woman has the OBJECTIVE experience of being a woman that you have no possibility of understanding no matter how many of them you somehow get into your bed. At least from a scientific standpoint.

Heterosexul women are not trying to have sex with other women. Therefore, she may have little to no understanding of the issue, outside of her own personal subjective experience, and no understanding of the issue from the perspective of a man.

The perspective of a woman, has NO greater value than the perspective of a man, in terms of viewing the totality of a situation and the interaction between both sexes.

A scientific standpoint, is using logic and facts, to come to a conclusion about a phenomenon, object, or situation. It is NEUTRAL!