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Sex On The 2nd Or 3rd Date

Not different from drinking wine. The young is ready to drink lots of shitty wine to get completely out control. The old guy prefers to savor a great glass of french wine.

However, @Wwanderer I would say that like with wine, amateurs can't really appreciate the full aroma of a 20000 Yen bottle and are satisfied even with a shitty "Beaujolais nouveau".
Sophistication takes time. :p

It's fine to be satisfied with a Beaujolais nouveau - just take your time and savour it and enjoy the moment.

But don't be the one swigging cask wine cheered on by your drunken mates, and think that it actually means that you are somehow better because you drank more than everyone else.
 
@danthrope - Your post appeared while I was typing mine, somewhat similar thoughts. Fwiiw, I think your second paragraph applies to some men but not all and also more often to older men than younger ones. In other words I think there are guys who just need a warm and wet orifice, and they are good to go more-or-less independent of any other circumstances.

@john.smith - I love the wine analogy...brilliant!

-Ww
 
@Wwanderer Maybe a tangent .. But with this short term relationship / one night stand / p4p.. It always has to be condom sex right? Not sure how much the wet orifice (eew!) part matters in that situation

Can condom sex ever be good sex? I am a bit inexperienced with it.. I am always scared to be rough incase of breaking it and it becomes more an exercise in pleasing the other person for me.. Maybe I am odd too!
 
And going back to first dates or second dates etc etc - I can remember clearly two different guys who chickened out of escalating to a kiss on the first date even though the sexual tension was there and I was dying for them to kiss me.
I don't know if it would have worked out differently if they had actually kissed me, but as it turned out not being kissed on the first date built the anticipation wonderfully and they ended up being amazing lovers.
 
I can remember clearly two different guys who chickened out of escalating to a kiss on the first date even though the sexual tension was there and I was dying for them to kiss me.

I believe that they were in clear violation of section 7, article 12c of the PUA code! :rolleyes:

-Ww
 
@Wwanderer Maybe a tangent .. But with this short term relationship / one night stand / p4p.. It always has to be condom sex right? Not sure how much the wet orifice (eew!) part matters in that situation

Can condom sex ever be good sex? I am a bit inexperienced with it.. I am always scared to be rough incase of breaking it and it becomes more an exercise in pleasing the other person for me.. Maybe I am odd too!

Well to be honest a condom doesn't make that much difference in feeling for me, so yeah condom sex can be great sex.
Hmmm.... I haven't broken a condom in about 6 years - and I've been known to go pretty wild at times ... Though I do prefer slow,steady and strong over the frenzied rabbit. The key is to make sure it fits properly, that it's on properly and for god sakes make sure she's wet enough - and use lube if there's any doubt.
 
And going back to first dates or second dates etc etc - I can remember clearly two different guys who chickened out of escalating to a kiss on the first date even though the sexual tension was there and I was dying for them to kiss me.
I don't know if it would have worked out differently if they had actually kissed me, but as it turned out not being kissed on the first date built the anticipation wonderfully and they ended up being amazing lovers.
For the story I chickened out kissing the first gfe I could have had... after two months ! The story did not ended well, she stopped texting me everyday at 2am, and suddenly stopped seeing me because she was "somewhere". Just to confess myself one month late when she already had a bf... omg the worst looser day of my life !!! The "anticipation" did not worked as well. :/
 
I believe that they were in clear violation of section 7, article 12c of the PUA code! :rolleyes:

-Ww

Indeed - they wouldn't have passed the PUA bro code - but in both cases I had sex - really really good sex - on the second date because I really really wanted to.
And kept on having amazing sex.
 
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@Wwanderer Maybe a tangent .. But with this short term relationship / one night stand / p4p.. It always has to be condom sex right? Not sure how much the wet orifice (eew!) part matters in that situation

Can condom sex ever be good sex? I am a bit inexperienced with it.. I am always scared to be rough incase of breaking it and it becomes more an exercise in pleasing the other person for me.. Maybe I am odd too!

A potentially long and extended tangent...and one that has been discussed a lot in other threads. Briefly, condom-less oral sex is virtually risk free, and you routinely take much greater risks in your daily life without a second thought than the risk that a (properly worn) condom will break during intercourse with any dire consequences (assuming additional birth control options are available or in use). That said, sure, sex with a condom can still be good or great; what is in your head and heart trumps having a cover on your dick.

And, btw, you are almost surely odd. Interesting folks nearly always are.

-Ww
 
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"there is nothing beautiful about ordinary" :)

Unfortunately, I cannot penetrate women with my head or my heart.. OR CAN I..TAG?

I get what you mean though
 
"there is nothing beautiful about ordinary" :)

Unfortunately, I cannot penetrate women with my head or my heart.. OR CAN I..TAG?

I get what you mean though

Well I had a long term lover who absolutely hated condoms, but after I had problems with birth control which affected my health we had to go back to condoms (which he did without complaint even though I was very apologetic) and because the heart and head were so involved in our amazing sex life he was still very very satisfied and very happy with the sex we had.

So the head and heart do affect how the penetration feels;)
 
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@Ladylisa

yeah I more meant the chances of finding someone you have chemistry with (not sure how difficult that is.. hard to measure i guess.. ) and then condoms.. so like two barriers

if you have the chemistry then yeah i am sure condom sex works ok as they are stimulating you in more than just the physical way

.. if there was a woman I found attractive offering me condom only sex.. I wouldn't say no!!
 
I wonder how many of synapse's "SNL's" were good sex..

Yeah, some are good sex. Some are not. I think it depends mostly on the girl.. a lot of Japanese girls are taught (via porn and otherwise) to just lie there and take it.. which doesn't make for a ton of fun. In longer relationships you can train 'em up though!

I can remember clearly two different guys who chickened out of escalating to a kiss on the first date even though the sexual tension was there and I was dying for them to kiss me.

For the story I chickened out kissing the first gfe I could have had... after two months ! The story did not ended well, she stopped texting me everyday at 2am, and suddenly stopped seeing me because she was "somewhere". Just to confess myself one month late when she already had a bf... omg the worst looser day of my life !!! The "anticipation" did not worked as well. :/

In a perfect world I would love to wait and let the tension just build and have amazing, firecracker sex (actually this is exactly what I do on the first date) for many dates. But thats not the reality every time. Lets do a thought experiment:

100 girls come on a date.
A.) 20 have no affinity with you, and will not have sex regardless.
B.) 20 will not have sex on the first date, but will at a later date if you keep meeting
C.) 20 are horny and like you, but not in any long term way. They will have sex with you on the first date, unless you don't go for it, but they won't be coming back out for another date either way.
D.) 20 like you, will have sex on the first date (and are happy to keep meeting), or will come out for a second/third date (and have sex then, if you haven't already), and by the luck of fate, don't meet anyone else and get a boyfriend before that date ends up coming about. (as in the example @Ladylisa provided)
E.) 20 like you, but Taro at work has been putting in seven months of effort into dozen dates including Disney Land and sending two dozen pictures of cute cats. She decides that he's actually not that bad and will date him. Alternatively, she is frustrated you didn't try to have sex with her on the date, wonders if its something wrong with her, goes out to club Atom and gets picked up by Shunsuke, the bleached kari-age construction worker who fucks her in his van and 中出しs her. She has the kid and gets married. You get the idea. If you don't have sex on the first date she will end up in a relationship before your next date.

If you DONT escalate to sex on the first date vs. escalating to sex on the first date, you're losing:
C.) who are just horny and are happy to have sex to fulfill their bodily urges, but don't really care about you in particular (there are actually a lot of Japanese girls like this.. happy for a casual fling but not much longer)
AND
E.) Who like you, but if you lollygag around too long will end up dating someone else before you get around to the second date (as in the example @john.smith provided above.

That's like 40% of the girls that you're losing by not going for sex on the first date.

If you are purposefully NOT going for sex on the first date you are wagering that the added sexual tension or whatever your goal is, is worth more than losing the girl 40% of the time. In 20% of those cases (E.), the girl might actually be your total dream girl and it's just a timing issue, but not going for sex is actually going to cost you your dream girl and potential future wife.

Not different from drinking wine. The young is ready to drink lots of shitty wine to get completely out control. The old guy prefers to savor a great glass of french wine.

However, @Wwanderer I would say that like with wine, amateurs can't really appreciate the full aroma of a 20000 Yen bottle and are satisfied even with a shitty "Beaujolais nouveau".
Sophistication takes time. :p

Some people just love wine. When they can have it, they're ecstatic and savor the 20k yen bottle to its last drop. When they can't have it they'll make do with that $5 bottle from the conbini. "Chugging terrible wine" in this analogy would be banging a fatty like ten times in a night, or keeping seeing a girl you don't really like just because she gives you sex. I agree this isn't good.

In reality its more like:

normal guy: has a bottle of wine maybe twice-three times a year. It's sometimes really excellent and sometimes really shitty, but wine is so rare that he enjoys it either way.
guy with good game: drinks wine with every meal. He samples the bad wine and the good wine, but since he samples so much he has a better idea of what actually IS good wine, so when he gets it he then calls the good wine seller to arrange weekly delivery of it to his house. After a while he has several different of his favorite, high-class wines coming to his house on different days and depending on whether he's eating fish or steak. Bon appetit!

The KEY is that you really have NO IDEA until you open the bottle of wine (have sex with the girl) how it's going to be. I've had some great, amazing dates with girls I was sure would end up being my girlfriend or at least someone regular. In the end the sex was terrible and I didn't feel like calling them back. On the other hand, I've had some flat-out boring dates with girls who had nothing to say for themselves, but in the bed they went crazy and it blew my world.

So on top of the 40% loss, you also get the girls in group B.) who are actually awful at sex and you're waiting around taking them on multiple dates when they're a brick in the sack. Why not find out that nasty little surprise quicker?

Finally..
condom-less oral sex is virtually risk free

This just plain isn't true. My friend got Chlamydia/Gonorrhea (cant remember which, but on two separate occasions) from receiving a blow job. http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp
I would definitely avoid BBBJs. I don't get them from normal girls I pull until they become regulars or something special, and I certainly wouldn't advise getting them from a provider or any other high-risk girl. Do so at your own risk.
 
Yeah, some are good sex. Some are not. I think it depends mostly on the girl.. a lot of Japanese girls are taught (via porn and otherwise) to just lie there and take it.. which doesn't make for a ton of fun. In longer relationships you can train 'em up though!





In a perfect world I would love to wait and let the tension just build and have amazing, firecracker sex (actually this is exactly what I do on the first date) for many dates. But thats not the reality every time. Lets do a thought experiment:

100 girls come on a date.
A.) 20 have no affinity with you, and will not have sex regardless.
B.) 20 will not have sex on the first date, but will at a later date if you keep meeting
C.) 20 are horny and like you, but not in any long term way. They will have sex with you on the first date, unless you don't go for it, but they won't be coming back out for another date either way.
D.) 20 like you, will have sex on the first date (and are happy to keep meeting), or will come out for a second/third date (and have sex then, if you haven't already), and by the luck of fate, don't meet anyone else and get a boyfriend before that date ends up coming about. (as in the example @Ladylisa provided)
E.) 20 like you, but Taro at work has been putting in seven months of effort into dozen dates including Disney Land and sending two dozen pictures of cute cats. She decides that he's actually not that bad and will date him. Alternatively, she is frustrated you didn't try to have sex with her on the date, wonders if its something wrong with her, goes out to club Atom and gets picked up by Shunsuke, the bleached kari-age construction worker who fucks her in his van and 中出しs her. She has the kid and gets married. You get the idea. If you don't have sex on the first date she will end up in a relationship before your next date.

If you DONT escalate to sex on the first date vs. escalating to sex on the first date, you're losing:
C.) who are just horny and are happy to have sex to fulfill their bodily urges, but don't really care about you in particular (there are actually a lot of Japanese girls like this.. happy for a casual fling but not much longer)
AND
E.) Who like you, but if you lollygag around too long will end up dating someone else before you get around to the second date (as in the example @john.smith provided above.

That's like 40% of the girls that you're losing by not going for sex on the first date.

If you are purposefully NOT going for sex on the first date you are wagering that the added sexual tension or whatever your goal is, is worth more than losing the girl 40% of the time. In 20% of those cases (E.), the girl might actually be your total dream girl and it's just a timing issue, but not going for sex is actually going to cost you your dream girl and potential future wife.



Some people just love wine. When they can have it, they're ecstatic and savor the 20k yen bottle to its last drop. When they can't have it they'll make do with that $5 bottle from the conbini. "Chugging terrible wine" in this analogy would be banging a fatty like ten times in a night, or keeping seeing a girl you don't really like just because she gives you sex. I agree this isn't good.

In reality its more like:

normal guy: has a bottle of wine maybe twice-three times a year. It's sometimes really excellent and sometimes really shitty, but wine is so rare that he enjoys it either way.
guy with good game: drinks wine with every meal. He samples the bad wine and the good wine, but since he samples so much he has a better idea of what actually IS good wine, so when he gets it he then calls the good wine seller to arrange weekly delivery of it to his house. After a while he has several different of his favorite, high-class wines coming to his house on different days and depending on whether he's eating fish or steak. Bon appetit!

The KEY is that you really have NO IDEA until you open the bottle of wine (have sex with the girl) how it's going to be. I've had some great, amazing dates with girls I was sure would end up being my girlfriend or at least someone regular. In the end the sex was terrible and I didn't feel like calling them back. On the other hand, I've had some flat-out boring dates with girls who had nothing to say for themselves, but in the bed they went crazy and it blew my world.

So on top of the 40% loss, you also get the girls in group B.) who are actually awful at sex and you're waiting around taking them on multiple dates when they're a brick in the sack. Why not find out that nasty little surprise quicker?

Finally..


This just plain isn't true. My friend got Chlamydia/Gonorrhea (cant remember which, but on two separate occasions) from receiving a blow job. http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp
I would definitely avoid BBBJs. I don't get them from normal girls I pull until they become regulars or something special, and I certainly wouldn't advise getting them from a provider or any other high-risk girl. Do so at your own risk.

Isn't there a group of girls who are really into you and want a proper relationship? Or I guess most women are clued up enough to realise what you are after and the limits of that?
 
Isn't there a group of girls who are really into you and want a proper relationship? Or I guess most women are clued up enough to realise what you are after and the limits of that?

Yeah, thats D.) and E.) (if you only took advantage of it before she gets another dude), and SOME of B.).
 
How do most women take it when you explain you don't want to be their boyfriend (or not exclusive anyway?)
 
How do most women take it when you explain you don't want to be their boyfriend (or not exclusive anyway?)

I dont usually explain it unless they ask. If they ask, I usually just say that I recently broke up with my ex and I'm not ready for a relationship right now. Usually though they piece everything together based on how often I text/meet them, the fact that I rarely meet them on the weekends, and rarely take them anywhere special / far from my place. If its a girl I quite like and want to keep seeing I'll do more interesting dates places away from my house and text her frequently.. this happens naturally, because I like her.

Ironically it's more so foreign guys in Japan find that they're on the receiving end of a playful relationship when they thought it was serious. This can hurt them if they're not prepared for it (for example, if they've put a ton of weight on the relationship and are thinking she might be "the one" only to find out she's taking dicks in the HUB bathroom).
 
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If you give a girl really really good sex, she will very rarely stop seeing you, even if you dont give her what she wants (a monogamous relationship, for example). She will stop seeing you if you get too clingy though and aren't providing her enough value
 
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I see, thanks! I have a need to spell everything out really clearly.. Which has not always helped me.. This way seems better!
 
If you give a girl really really good sex, she will very rarely stop seeing you, even if you dont give her what she wants (a monogamous relationship, for example). She will stop seeing you if you get too clingy though and aren't providing her enough value

Haha... I do have to agree with this - really *really* good sex has a way of making you not care about anything else:D
 
This just plain isn't true. My friend got Chlamydia/Gonorrhea (cant remember which, but on two separate occasions) from receiving a blow job. http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp
I would definitely avoid BBBJs. I don't get them from normal girls I pull until they become regulars or something special, and I certainly wouldn't advise getting them from a provider or any other high-risk girl. Do so at your own risk.

There is a whole thread on TAG set aside for safe sex debates, and board management *strongly* prefers to keep all such discussions there. I have plenty of posts in the thread is you (or anyone) is interested in my views on the matter. If we are to rely on anecdotal evidence though, I can add that I have had many many (thousands surely) of BBBJs from a large number of women, including many sex workers and swingers, and never caught a thing. I know many other mongers who can say the same. I'd stand by my statement that the risks are small compared to many others you accept without question. Moreover, note that the diseases you mention are treatable and curable. Nothing more from me on this topic in this thread.

-Ww