Smell, Odor, & Deodorant In Japan

[vondoom]

good point! shirts made from those fabrics have been quite popular last summer, i think they called it "active wear", but im not sure...
other way to go are linen shirts, or at least linen mixed with cotton, since those are designed to to be breathable...

 

[Sinapse]

Actually, for many people it's the opposite. Cotton socks are a good example. People with bad smelling feet or foot fungus are arguably better off with the man-made or mixed of cotton and something else, versus pure cotton.

Many of the new materials and blends are more "breathable", durable, don't shrink, bacteria/odor resistant, etc... So I think it might better to look at clothing in a case by case way.

It was a joke in response to what User#16452 wrote. I have smart wool socks and they're awesome because they don't get that smelly at all.

 

[namae]

This thread could be nominated for the least scientific fact based thread on TAG.

JPN don't sweat, don't smell , don't eat much meat? ..... mmmmhhh. I would be pretty certain the average JPN male at my age, eats more meat than me, sweats lots more than me and smells more than me.

 

[User#16452]

.

 

[Wwanderer]

This thread could be nominated for the least scientific fact based thread on TAG.

That's a pretty strong claim, but I agree that you could make a case for it.

-Ww

 

[Curacao]

In the interest of greater scientific rigour, here is some more info about ear wax/body odour:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/east-asians-dry-earwax-and-adaptation/

(We might need a whole other thread about oral hygiene...)

 

[split]

Yeah. Ear wax is different from Caucasian and Asians.

 

[Solong]

In the interest of greater scientific rigour, here is some more info about ear wax/body odour:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/east-asians-dry-earwax-and-adaptation/

(We might need a whole other thread about oral hygiene...)

Nowhere does that article say East Asians DON'T stink, won't eventually stink, or don't need to wash or clean clothes.

That's a point being overlooked. That guy X won't stink until after 5 hours and guy Y will stink at after 2 hours, is that a significant enough difference not to matter, not to wash, or not to use deodorant?

What percentage of East Asians are we talking about? So if 65% of X don't stink and 35% of Y don't stink, then a guy might not give a damn if they end up on the wrong side of the other percentage. And how do you tell who from whom in a modern context of soap and water?

And wet ear wax might be more protective against small flying insects. Body odor relative to bacteria that's present. The study wasn't looking at other factors nor did it state it was "the be all end all" in the debate.

 

[Sudsy]

Actually, as per the 1980 paper, Human Body Odor, East Asians have fewer apocrine glands in the axilla than Caucasians, while Africans tend to have more, and larger, glands. Bacterial interaction with apocrine sweat is largely responsible for underarm odor, which is why East Asians tend to have milder body odor, and Africans stronger body odors - though this can also be affected significantly by diet.

Paper here.

 

[Solong]

Actually, as per the 1980 paper, Human Body Odor, East Asians have fewer apocrine glands in the axilla than Caucasians, while Africans tend to have more, and larger, glands. Bacterial interaction with apocrine sweat is largely responsible for underarm odor, which is why East Asians tend to have milder body odor, and Africans stronger body odors - though this can also be affected significantly by diet.

Paper here.

The effect of apocrine glands in the modern context of daily showers and soap, where there is only a 20% difference between both ends of the spectrum, is very doubtful.

And part of the point of Africans or any group in warmer climates, to sweat more, is that you don't overheat and pass out from heat stroke.

In addition:

1. All people of a so-called "race" are not exactly the same nor have the same attributes.

2. Asians can stink and have body odor if they don't use proper hygiene.

There is NO non-body odor gene or gland. Don't confuse what the paper is saying.

3. Deodorant and soap are selling well in Japan and Korea.

People that have no body odor, just wouldn't need all that soap and deodorant would they?

4. Soap, deodorant, and daily hygiene works wonders on all humans, regardless if they are White, Black, Asian, Indian, etc...

5. It's 2016, not 1980

People have been mistaken about a great many things or have purposely injected racial bias when they shouldn't, because evidence later proved to be contradictory or pointed to different conclusions.

 

[User#8628]

For Westerners, Amazon sells the Speed Stick line of antiperspirants/deodorants - Japanese labeling, but Western formulation. It's quite effective.

I have also spotted lady speed stick at Tokyu hands and bought it because it's a sensation but it doesn't do it for me.
I like nivea deo:

 

[Sudsy]

And here you go again, making a mountain out of a molehill.

The effect of apocrine glands in the modern context of daily showers and soap, where there is only a 20% difference between both ends of the spectrum, is very doubtful.

And part of the point of Africans or any group in warmer climates, to sweat more, is that you don't overheat and pass out from heat stroke.

The effect of apocrine glands is doubtful? It's medical and biochemical fact. And yes, the fact that Africans evolved to more successfully thrive in a warmer climate is why they have more, and larger, apocrine glands than Caucasians or East Asians.

In addition:

1. All people of a so-called "race" are not exactly the same nor have the same attributes.

Another of your silly strawman arguments - this was never claimed nor implied.

2. Asians can stink and have body odor if they don't use proper hygiene.

Again, nobody said they couldn't. I swear, you must own stock in a straw supply company.

There is NO non-body odor gene or gland. Don't confuse what the paper is saying.

Apparently I'm not the one with a reading comprehension issue. The secretions of the eccrine glands do not form malodorous compounds on interaction with skin bacteria, while the apocrine glands do.

3. Deodorant and soap are selling well in Japan and Korea.

People that have no body odor, just wouldn't need all that soap and deodorant would they?

Again, nobody said that East Asians don't have any body odor, simply that their body odor is somewhat milder. Straw, straw, straw....

4. Soap, deodorant, and daily hygiene works wonders on all humans, regardless if they are White, Black, Asian, Indian, etc...

Yes... you say this like it's some kind of amazing revelation. It's not, and it's irrelevant.

5. It's 2016, not 1980

Human evolution doesn't make drastic changes over the space of 30-40 years.

People have been mistaken about a great many things or have purposely injected racial bias when they shouldn't, because evidence later proved to be contradictory or pointed to different conclusions.

This is not untrue - but as I presented findings from a peer-reviewed paper, let's hold you to the same standard.

Find us a contradictory paper from a university journal, instead of contradictory opinions from Solong's School of Strawmen and Irrelevancies.

Edit: And just to make it harder on you, the findings in the 1980 paper are born out again in this 2010 paper:

Preti, George; Leyden, James (2010). "Genetic Influence on Human Body Odor: From Genes to the Axillae". Journal of Investigative Dermatology 130: 334–345.

 

[Manfreidi]

am I the only one finding this thread vaguely humorous?

Simple answers I took from this thread:

1)Practice good hygiene
2)Dress weather appropriate
3)Search out an effective deodorant
4)Don't worry about whether the Asian guy next you on the trains sweats more or less as it does not give you an excuse to ignore points 1 2 and 3.
5) If a woman can't tell the difference between body odour and perfume after spending time in a woman only train car and various department store cosmetics section; she probably isn't your type so you shouldn't care.

 

[Wwanderer]

am I the only one finding this thread vaguely humorous?

No!

Although I might delete the word "vaguely".

-Ww

 

[Solong]

And here you go again, making a mountain out of a molehill.



The effect of apocrine glands is doubtful? It's medical and biochemical fact. And yes, the fact that Africans evolved to more successfully thrive in a warmer climate is why they have more, and larger, apocrine glands than Caucasians or East Asians.



Another of your silly strawman arguments - this was never claimed nor implied.



Again, nobody said they couldn't. I swear, you must own stock in a straw supply company.



Apparently I'm not the one with a reading comprehension issue. The secretions of the eccrine glands do not form malodorous compounds on interaction with skin bacteria, while the apocrine glands do.



Again, nobody said that East Asians don't have any body odor, simply that their body odor is somewhat milder. Straw, straw, straw....



Yes... you say this like it's some kind of amazing revelation. It's not, and it's irrelevant.



Human evolution doesn't make drastic changes over the space of 30-40 years.



This is not untrue - but as I presented findings from a peer-reviewed paper, let's hold you to the same standard.

Find us a contradictory paper from a university journal, instead of contradictory opinions from Solong's School of Strawmen and Irrelevancies.

Edit: And just to make it harder on you, the findings in the 1980 paper are born out again in this 2010 paper:

Preti, George; Leyden, James (2010). "Genetic Influence on Human Body Odor: From Genes to the Axillae". Journal of Investigative Dermatology 130: 334–345.

Speaking of a massive strawman and the pot calling the kettle black. By the way, I noticed this trend of hypocrisy. Where a poster tries to be slick and accuse others of doing what they are doing.

And you didn't actually refute most of my points, but simply doubled down on your racial hierarchy. Asians (and humans in general) can and do stink if they lack proper hygiene. The paper doesn't not claim Asians have no odor or never stink. The logical among us can see and understand the difference.

The topic also was not on Africans, sweat glands, or any racial bias that you might have against them. So your straw, straw, straw... right back at you. I swear you must own stock and be the CEO of Strawman & Hypocrisy Inc.

The topic was more about foreigners (regardless of race) in Japan, and being careful of using products that will have an unintended affect, in terms of how it smells and/or how locals perceive it's smell.

 

[Sudsy]

Classic Solong... when someone knocks down your strawmen and you're unable to counter with actual logic or evidence you go straight to the ad hominem.

And you didn't actually refute most of my points, but simply doubled down on your racial hierarchy. Asians can and do stink if they lack proper hygiene, the paper doesn't not claim Asians have no odor or never stink. The logical among us can see and understand the difference.

I refuted the points that referred to my original argument. None of your other points needed to be refuted as they had nothing to do with the premise that East Asians have milder body odor than Caucasians or Africans. No claim was ever made that East Asians have no body odor, or that they are incapable of developing a strong body odor given poor enough hygeine.

The topic also was not on Africans, sweat glands, or any racial bias that you might have against them. So your straw, straw, straw... right back at you. I swear you must own stock and be the CEO of Strawman & Hypocrisy Inc.

The topic was more about foreigners in Japan, and being careful of using products that will have an unintended affect, in terms of how it smells and/or how locals perceive it's smell.

Actually, you were the one that went in this direction, in response to Curacao's postings above:

Nowhere does that article say East Asians DON'T stink, won't eventually stink, or don't need to wash or clean clothes.

That's a point being overlooked. That guy X won't stink until after 5 hours and guy Y will stink at after 2 hours, is that a significant enough difference not to matter, not to wash, or not to use deodorant?

What percentage of East Asians are we talking about? So if 65% of X don't stink and 35% of Y don't stink, then a guy might not give a damn if they end up on the wrong side of the other percentage. And how do you tell who from whom in a modern context of soap and water?

And wet ear wax might be more protective against small flying insects. Body odor relative to bacteria that's present. The study wasn't looking at other factors nor did it state it was "the be all end all" in the debate.

I merely presented evidence that, in fact, East Asians do have a milder body odor than those of European or African descent.

Again - as I presented findings from TWO peer-reviewed papers, let's hold you to the same standard.

Find us eve ONE contradictory paper from a university journal, instead of contradictory opinions from Solong's School of Strawmen and Irrelevancies, or the adjunct school of Ad Hominem Attacks.

 

[Solong]

Classic Solong... when someone knocks down your strawmen and you're unable to counter with actual logic or evidence you go straight to the ad hominem.



I refuted the points that referred to my original argument. None of your other points needed to be refuted as they had nothing to do with the premise that East Asians have milder body odor than Caucasians or Africans. No claim was ever made that East Asians have no body odor, or that they are incapable of developing a strong body odor given poor enough hygeine.



Actually, you were the one that went in this direction, in response to Curacao's postings above:



I merely presented evidence that, in fact, East Asians do have a milder body odor than those of European or African descent.

Again - as I presented findings from TWO peer-reviewed papers, let's hold you to the same standard.

Find us eve ONE contradictory paper from a university journal, instead of contradictory opinions from Solong's School of Strawmen and Irrelevancies, or the adjunct school of Ad Hominem Attacks.

"Classic" Sudsy (notice this start on your previous post). Avoid the point when you are wrong, then double down on your strawman and hypocrisy. Then wait or call for backup to gang up on whoever disagrees or take your grievances into other threads to launch insults. You launch sarcastic ad hominem attacks on others, and if done in return, scream murder.

You are not slick, this topic wasn't on Africans, Asians in general, racial hierarchies, sweat glands, or those papers. You are not fooling anybody over here.

And, I was not arguing against the papers, but clarifying that ALL humans can and do stink, especially when lacking proper hygiene. You know that point, but will skirt around it.

The topic is on products that people use that affect smell and how Japanese might react to them.

 

[Sudsy]

C'mon, Solong, you can do better than that.

Classic Sudsy. Avoid the point when you are wrong, then double down on your strawman and hypocrisy. Then wait or call for backup to gang up on whoever disagrees or take your grievances into other threads to launch insults. You launch sarcastic ad hominem attacks on others, and if done in return, scream murder.

Again, full on into the ad hominem. For someone who so frequently throws them out, you seem to have a very shaky grasp on what a strawman argument is. I presented a relevant academic paper that detracted from an argument you made against Curacao (who was also providing academic evidence), and you replied - twice now - with a load of blather. I also do not rely on backup - I am more than capable of holding my own in a discussion of medical or scientific issues. Finally, calling you out for using strawman arguments and ad hominem is not, in and of itself, an ad hominem attack on your position. In this thread I have not said anything about you personally, only your argument and your forays into logical fallacies.

You are not slick, this topic wasn't on Africans, racial hierarchies, sweat glands, or those papers. You are not fooling anybody over here.

This topic had, in fact, encompassed the issue of sweat glands and body odor, and you were already arguing that point when I chimed in.

I did not, and still have not, made any statements regarding racial "hierarchies", merely the medical fact that differnt ethnic groups have different glandular structures, which are responsible for differences in body odors.

Similar differences also exist between the genders - women, in general, have fewer apocrine glands than men, and hence have milder body odors than men.

And, I was not arguing against the papers, but clarifying that ALL humans can and do stink, especially when lacking proper hygiene.

This is a fallacy. You were quite clearly arguing against the point of these papers, and the one presented by Curacao, which is that East Asians have milder body odor than members of other ethnic groups.

The topic is on products that people use that affect smell and how Japanese might react to them.

That was the topic of your original post. It is not the sole topic of discussion in this thread, and you are not the sole arbiter of what is and is not being discussed.

Back to business: The challenge is for you to find one piece of peer reviewed academic evidence supporting your side.

 

[Solong]

Back to business: The challenge is for you to find one piece of peer reviewed academic evidence supporting your side.

Not the point of the topic and I need not do any such thing, by your request. Typed what I wanted to say about such, and many points you just skirted around or disregarded, to promote your bias.

But do see you are working overtime on trying to derail the topic and turn it into some type of race discussion. If you want to believe in mythology like Asians magically don't smell, feel free. If you want to argue over degrees of stink, that's irrelevant. Stink is stink, when it reaches a certain point and especially when hygiene is lacking, no matter which race.

 

[Sudsy]

Not the point of the topic and I need not do any such thing, by your request.

In other words, you can't.

Typed what I wanted to say about such, and many points you just skirted around or disregarded, to promote your bias.

You seem to think that just because I mentioned the word "African" that there's a bias implied. It's biology, plain and simple.

But do see you are working overtime on trying to derail the topic and turn it into some type of race discussion.

The truth of the matter is that all ethnic groups have different physical attributes, and none of those physical attributes matter in the slightest when considering their worth as a human being.

If you want to believe in mythology like Asians magically don't smell, feel free.

Again, I did not say or imply that. Asians have milder body odor, but they still have body odor.

If you want to argue over degrees of stink, that's irrelevant. Stink is stink, when it reaches a certain point and especially when hygiene is lacking, no matter which race.

And logical fallacies and lack of scientific understanding are logical fallacies and lack of scientific understanding, no matter how much bluster you use in an attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about.

 

[Solong]

... just because I mentioned the word "African" that there's a bias implied. It's biology, plain and simple.

The truth of the matter is that all ethnic groups have different physical attributes, and none of those physical attributes matter in the slightest when considering their worth as a human being.

Again, I did not say or imply that. Asians have milder body odor, but they still have body odor.

"But do see you are working overtime on trying to derail the topic and turn it into some type of race discussion."

 

[Curacao]

Guys can you stop stinking up this thread please.

 

[namae]

I remember once being told that the locals in Hong Kong thought that caucasians ( a.k.a gweilos) smelt of cheese - a smell the locals did not like.

I am not easily offended. The terms Gweilo and Gaijin do not even register as insults or racial slurs with me. On hearing this news, my immediate thought was to carry a wheel of Camembert with me on the subway in order to secure my 2 cm of personal space.

 

[split]

I've read dairy products are a big contributor of BO. I thought of once getting those glands in the armpits surgically removed because it can get so onion smelly. Luckily, I've finally found a deodorant that actually and finally prevents the smell. Man, in the hot summers, it was atrocious.

 

[Solong]

I've read dairy products are a big contributor of BO. I thought of once getting those glands in the armpits surgically removed because it can get so onion smelly. Luckily, I've finally found a deodorant that actually and finally prevents the smell. Man, in the hot summers, it was atrocious.

What type of deodorant are you using?

This can help other foreigners. I have suggested to others:

Soft Stone/Deonatulle

Ban 8X4 stick

Ag+ stick (Shiseido)