So what's with the myth that Japanese women like gaijin?

Discussion in 'Dating & Relationships' started by AverageJohn, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. AverageJohn

    AverageJohn TAG Member

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    I have been reading this forum among a few others for guidance in the dating scene in Tokyo for months and I keep seeing people repeat how gaijin don't have a hard time finding available j girls for dating. Seen a lot women posting about how harder it is for western women than men.

    I've been here for months and haven't had the least amount of luck meeting women than I have anywhere else in the world. I've been to Roppongi, Shibuya, the bars, the clubs, the malls, coffee shops, business circles, friends of friends. This place is a desert, like I've never seen in all my life anywhere. After reading about the country's birthing situation I am not the least bit surprised with how disinterested people seem to be with one another.

    Sorry for the rant but after many months of being patience and carefully studying and searching I had to rant.
     
    #1 AverageJohn, Mar 12, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
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  2. fireman

    fireman TAG Member

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    Roppongi at 12:30 am is a turkey shoot. Maybe you aren't staying out long enough?
     
  3. meiji

    Global Moderator

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    "I've been here for months and have had the least amount of luck meeting women than I have anywhere else in the world."

    I think it depends on what your 'target market' is, your approach, and your end goal. If you are looking for one-night stands with 20-something Japanese women, you are probably not gonna be in luck. I'm no prize or have a lot of pickup skills, and I've had lots of luck with personals websites, getting dates with women in their 30s.

    Yeah, foreigners aren't the forbidden fruit that they used to be, but there's still lots of Japanese women that prefer dating foreigners for various reasons.
     
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  4. GoldenDalton

    GoldenDalton TAG Member

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    I always got that vibe whenever I was there (meaning the whole country,)- as a gaijin you had a definite advantage, provided that you were a "natural" gaijin, i.e. not attempting to do the impossible and become Japanese, but were comfortable as an American, Englishmen, etc.

    So you believe ONS with 20s are out of the question for most guys? I've wondered about this myself as I always wanted to attempt one, but have never tried. Why are they so rare? Whenever I'm there, I'm always at odds as to which women I should pursue. Being in my early 30s, I rarely feel like I couldn't pursue someone on their mid-late 20s to late 30s in the West, but I get so lost with things in Japan I don't even know how to pick potential targets.
     
  5. meiji

    Global Moderator

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    I think if you are under 40, speak good japanese, very well dressed, attractive and especially well-built (not overweight), and you have game, ONS with young Japanese women aren't out of the question, but that's a really small segment of foreigners in Japan. ONS with married or older women are far more likely, and those women are going to still be very attractive, but not super-young.

    If you are looking for hot young japanese women, you'll have to try the P4P market, either delivery health, 'social clubs', happymail, etc.
     
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  6. fireman

    fireman TAG Member

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    IME, Japanese women in their 20s tend to be pretty introverted and suspicious, and don't usually date outside of organized circles like their college, workplace, friends' parties, etc. To be fair this is probably mainly because most Japanese men are incredibly age-ist and focus all of their efforts on the 29 and younger set, so women in this age range basically have half of the country chasing after them at all times. Once they get into their 30s they get more desperate and are much more willing to get it on with total strangers.
     
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  7. Panda989

    Panda989 Super Fantastic Member

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    I can attest to this. My wife's unmarked friends are all over 30 and are all fantastic looking. No Japanese men will take a shot at them so they throw themselves at gaijin for little more then a bottle of wine. Most of them I would have a go with but I know the wife would hear about it so it keeps me from being bad.

    The 30 and older crows is much better in Japan for sure.
     
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  8. AverageJohn

    AverageJohn TAG Member

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    This was my suspicion all along. It appears that while everyone here seems to recognize and accept this about the culture, it is a major drawback of the culture imo.

    My company gave me the option to relocate here long term but I am doing a "trial" period first before committing. The singles culture here is so atrocious I'm on the first plane out of the country later this month.

    Not even sure what the allure is for gaijin's after knowing all this and reading the "Marriage, a bad idea" thread on this forum. There are so many other more open minded parts of the world to live a fulfilling life.
     
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  9. TAG Administrator

    TAG Administrator TAG Member

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    IMHO, it all boils down to the cards you are dealt. Some people arrive in Japan and assimilate almost immediately into some social group. There are people that come her that are absolutely miserable and others that are just the opposite.

    Times have changed. Things are surely not what they used to be, that is very true. If you ask me, I think too many single people are wrapped up in their smartphones and tablets, creating more introverts that don't want to be social with real human contact.

    -Eliah
     
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  10. drewz

    drewz TAG Member

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    Well, Japan's definitely not a place for open-mindedness and yeah the dating culture sucks. The marriage thread, well people make bad choices in spouses all over the world. I've been here a couple of years and while there's no way in hell I'd stay, I can see a few reasons to:

    If you're the kinda guy who wants a cutesy housewife type who cooks & cleans and is happy to stay home taking care of the kids then there's a ton of Japanese girls out there looking for the same thing.

    If you aren't terribly picky and just want to get laid frequently it really isn't that hard to pick up girls in Shibuya or Roppongi. Just go to Hub or somewhere else that's a known spot for foreigner hunting and have at it. You probably won't want to date most of them though.

    If you want an intelligent girl with a good career who doesn't want to be a housewife, well you're screwed. Japan's 20 years behind the western world in terms of gender equality, the work culture is toxic, pop culture is toxic, etc.
     
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  11. Ettore2011

    Ettore2011 TAG Member

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    Yes, average John, I guess you didn't go to any of international party held on facebook. They seemed to me plenty of girls looking for a gajin to lay off with, any age, any kind...
     
  12. psd

    psd TAG Member

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    It's been a long story of people living here and not making any Japanese friends. Japanese tend to stick to their small groups, almost as if their friends were assigned to them, highschool, university club, team at work, and these groups are pretty well partitioned off from each other. If you meet someone, say at a soccer club, they will categorise you as the friend from soccer club and you probably won't meet any other of their groups. Added to this the geographical reality of greater Kanto; your homes are probably a long way from each other, work colleagues are unlikely to meet each others families. I also think Japanese take a lot longer to develop a sense of self.

    There is also a major divide between the sexes which is weird for most foreigners. You'll regularly see ten or more young salarymen out on the town together. That's unimaginable where I come from, that would be a bucks party! Even then they'd be at least one girl hanging out. Anything more than maybe 4 guys and they'll be at least one girl in the group.

    Sure you can try to nampa some girls you meet but that's not easy for me. What's worked is my hobby places me in a group of young Japanese that are quite open, and so I met a lot of nice young girls and over many years I have a large network of friends. Funny, I don't get the standard questions, where are you from, etc.

    Of course I'm speaking in generalities and that's just my experience.

    Sorry that's not a magic bullet but to be part of this society you have to have a role in it, actually multiple roles.
     
  13. AverageJohn

    AverageJohn TAG Member

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    Not familiar with international facebook party...
     
  14. AverageJohn

    AverageJohn TAG Member

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    Yes, I get the same impression that people's lives are compartmentalized and like you said almost "assigned" by some defining role.

    The divide of the sexes is actually what is most unusual for me. Where I come from we call that a "sausage fest." Definitely fun to have time with the guys but every time leaves one lacking.

    Thank you for your insight psd and everyone else who took the time to respond. Pretty much everyone is echoing things I had long suspected myself.
     
  15. naganv

    naganv TAG Member

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    Japan girls are awesome, I want to feel them, any suggestions :)
     
  16. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    Re: Re: So what's with the myth that Japanese women like gaijin?

    Some others put it correctly. I've been in Japan for many years and seen a lot.

    Many Japanese women are introverted, suspicious, paranoid, and don't date outside of closed circles. There are exceptions, but they are just that in comparison to the general population. 95% of Japanese women are NOT going outside of their Japanese bubble.

    Where many foreigners get confused, is by Japanese politeness in service industries for money or group settings.

    Because a receptionist or cashier smiles at you, doesn't mean she wants you. It's about your MONEY and their commitment to service. Even speaking English for many Japanese, is about MONEY and JOBS, not necessarily about creating international relationships. If you meet Japanese at a social event, they can just be talking to you to be nice or as temporary entertainment. The "relationship" won't go past that 1 day.

    Japanese women are NOW famous for not replying to phone calls or e-mail, despite giving it out freely when meeting Or, promising to meet, but not showing up. It's a big joke among Japanese women to tease foreigners, and even gullible Japanese guys.

    This type of behavior is described as honne and tatemae in Japan, or acting fake.

    Many foreigners, when mindlessly repeating that Japanese women are easy, DON'T live in Japan or are talking about 10 to 20 years ago. Going all the way back to the bubble economy in Japan or referring to the 1980s and 1990s. It's 2013, and things in Japan are different.

    A lot of foreign women will also mindlessly repeat the "Charisma Man Myth" out of JEALOUSY and COMPETITION with Japanese women or confuse Japanese female POLITENESS with them being sluts. To include foreign women that have NEVER lived Japan or are jealously or racistly talking about Asian women in general from their country and who don't like dating their group of men.

    The myth that Japanese women like foreigners was mostly sensationalized media hype. The Japanese media hype was also perpetrated by anti-foreigner right wing groups to give the impression that foreigners were having sex in the streets or just easily raping Japanese women.

    This was to create FEAR among Japanese women and anti-foreigner sentiment among Japanese in general. Many Japanese women are afraid of foreigners. Either because other Japanese will think they are a slut for talking to foreigners or even silly fears about speaking English poorly and embarrassing themselves.

    I've seen foreign men come to Japan and not have a girlfriend for an ENTIRE YEAR or more. They did so bad, that I've seen a few get near depressed. There have been several times that myself or other pals had to step in and explain how things work in Japan.

    With that said, if you are White and have blonde hair and blue eyes, you MIGHT find some Japanese more receptive to you. This is to include those with a LOT of MONEY.

    Some guys, of the above description, can do very well with Japanese women because they are seen as a popular commodity. Like Gucci or
    Louis Vuitton... Such guys are introduced to Japanese women, by other groups of Japanese. This is, some Japanese feel it enhances their reputation to introduce a White person with blonde hair and blue eyes. "Look what I found." This objectification or commoditizing can also be if you match a stereotype that's is popular or in fashion. Like, looking like a Black rapper or DJ, 10 years ago.

    However, this has a very controversial racist element to it. Where even the blonde hair and blue eyes type can sooner or later get upset with being objectified, and seen as a commodity or toy. A toy or pet, that's is never fully accepted in Japanese society or the group, and is stared at or played as if only eye candy.

    For most foreigners, that don't match a very narrowly defined type, Japanese women can be exceptionally difficult to form relationships with because you are outside their closed circles. Japanese women can also seem to be weird or behave oddly, because they are acting fake or putting on a performance for their group or when outside.
     
    #16 Solong, Mar 21, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
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  17. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    International Parties and Clubs

    My friends and I warn guys about getting suckered in the international party scene and also in clubs and bars. You should arguably have a more varied approach to meeting women.

    For many Japanese, the international parties are places to practice their English and to be entertained by foreigners. Like how a clown entertains...

    Many Japanese women will SEEM friendly at the party or club, and even give you their phone number or e-mail, then they will NOT reply the next day or NOT meet you.

    Some Japanese women are purposely gaming and teasing foreigners. It's a joke and they are playing you. Other Japanese women abuse foreigners for FREE ENGLISH practice. They are corresponding with you TEMPORARILY, for English practice. As soon as you try making a date or ask to meet again, they will cut you off or make a fake excuse as to why they can't meet you.

    As a general rule of thumb, if a Japanese woman hasn't met you for a 2nd date or hasn't had sex with you within the first 2 WEEKS of meeting you, 95% of the time, she NEVER will. It's also highly likely that she's abusing you for free English practice, beyond that time period. Using the 2 week rule as a guide, has helped a lot of foreign guys stuck with Japanese women that don't say "yes or no" or never make their feelings clear.

    Many Japanese women are hysterically paranoid about being called or looking like a slut. This is partly due to right wing groups and media slut labelling Japanese women talking to foreigners or even just them speaking English "too well". It's something that many Japanese women are convoluted and confused about. They may want to learn or get better at English and meet foreigners, but they don't want to be labelled a slut for foreigners. But, them sneakily being an office slut for Japanese guys, is perfectly acceptable.

    Talk to women at convenience stores, video stores, train stations, department stores... Use Internet dates sites, social media... Do that, in addition to clubs, bars, or international parties. Guys that have more variation in how they meet and approach Japanese women are usually more successful.
     
    #17 Solong, Mar 22, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
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  18. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    Based on spending a fair fraction of my life in Japan over the last 25+ years, my impression is that gaijin guys are not *generally* popular with Japanese women but that they have a significant and devoted "cult" following, in the same sense that certain somewhat weird movies (e.g., Rocky Horror Picture Show) are not enjoyed by most people but are fanatically adored by small groups of fans. Opera might be another reasonable metaphor; most people don't care for it, but many of those who do enjoy it are obsessed with it.

    The implication is that if a gaijin guy finds some particular Japanese woman attractive (assuming that he encounters her in some neutral setting, not in some place that Japanese women go specifically to meet gaijin men), he is not likely to find her receptive. However, if he perceives that some Japanese woman is interested in him, then the chances are that she will be VERY interested indeed.

    The above is all consistent with both my own experiences and my observations of the experiences of others in Japan.

    My other comment is that in the long term, romances/relationships built on an essentially racist basis don't do well. In other words if you are attracted to her primarily because she is Japanese or has qualities that are typical of Japanese women and/or she is attracted to you primarily because you are gaijin and/or have qualities that are typical of gaijin men, then you can have a hot and heavy time for a bit, but it isn't likely to work for very long.

    -Ww
     
  19. TAG Manager

    Executive Leadership

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    When I was playing the field more often, I preferred to meet professional Japanese women who have some previous international exposure. That reduces some of the games they play but also means they are more westernized and sometimes behave more like western women. It's not always a bad thing, it just takes a few tries to find one worth hanging on to.

    Oddly, I've had some strange successes in meeting girls working in the service industry such as waitresses. Once I open my mouth and they know I speak some Japanese, they open up like a flower and can be ripe for picking. Nurses also tended to be soft targets when I was visiting a hospital regularly.

    Speaking at least some reasonable Japanese turns the table on situations where otherwise, you would not get very far.

    What drives me nuts are Japanese girls that are publicly throwing themselves over some other foreigner. Those girls give other J-girls bad names by other Japanese people. PDA is fine, but not on the Yamanote line at rush hour while going home.
     
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  20. Lorddisick

    Lorddisick TAG Member

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    @Solong : I agree 100% with what you've said !

    I would add that Japanese girls are hard to get, paranoid, suspicious etc... but as the same time, they are the first to end up in porn movies doing the weirdest and most disgusting things. Go figure out...
     
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  21. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    @Lorddisick

    The Japanese women that do porn, are a bit different than Western women, because of the difference in society and system.

    Japanese are usually NOT Christians and are a more religiously free society, so are often LESS sexually inhibited.

    In PRIVATE or SECRET, many can do some very sexually wild acts, however it still depends on the woman.

    Japanese women are often more worried about their public image, being known as a slut, and being publicly embarrassed or humiliated.

    BUT, their fear of being different from the group is what Japanese groups can use to their advantage.

    Japanese porn companies often have EXTREME CONTROL over the women that work for them. It's often not the same as in Western countries.

    The Japanese porn companies do such things as:

    1. Transfer her to far away locations to work.

    If she is from Osaka, send her to Tokyo, and away from any family or friends that might interfere with her indoctrination.

    2. EXPLOIT any FINANCIAL weakness

    A) Loan her money, so she is in DEBT and must pay it back

    B) Pay her RENT and register the apartment under the company's name, so she is in FEAR of being homeless if fired.

    3. Do an INDOCTRINATION into the company.

    This is along the lines of mentally programming her and new employee bootcamps.

    All of this is to push the Japanese women to be LOYAL to their company or do anything for their company.

    4. Allow her to ONLY have sex or date with COMPANY employees or men CHOSEN for her.

    5. Particularly for newer and younger Japanese women, may have CHAPERONES that follow them around or set CURFEWS of when they must be in their apartment.

    The older female porn workers don't need chaperones or curfews, but that's because they have often turned into hardcore and ruthless type prostitutes that ONLY have sex for money or as directed by their boss.

    In addition to this, porn company recruiters can be master pickup artists that are good at identifying certain types of women or exploiting any weakness through money or "gray area" blackmail. And these recruiters can be OTHER WOMEN.

    The combination of all of this makes it easier for Japanese companies to get their women to do extreme scenes.

    And not all of the women are Japanese. They can be Korean and Chinese women, so there is that VISA angle that they can use.

    Japanese porn companies have sneaky tactics, like having the women date and be the "girlfriend" of a master of a certain type of perversion. Let's say SCAT.

    He will PRETEND to be her boyfriend, date the company woman for a few weeks, and gradually convince her to do extreme things on video. Instead of a guy, they may have another Japanese woman befriend her and convince her to do SCAT or whatever.

    The Japanese women do it out of "love" to the boyfriend/master and loyalty to the company. Or, they can switch tactics like if she owes a lot of money or threaten to fire her.

    I've had some pals that did porn and I've hooked up a number times with female porn stars. It was entirely by luck and chance. They all explained to me how the system often works.
     
  22. Lorddisick

    Lorddisick TAG Member

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    The thing I find "disgusting" is many western guys (maybe even Japanese ones ?) have tough times getting just one Japanese girlfriend.
    BUT these ladies end up so easily in porn industry. They are able to get fucked by any guys just for some money. And it's not the ugliest ones, some are so cute, I find it unbelievable that they end up in that.
    Porn actresses, --usually--, have a kind of personality/face made for that job. Some can be trashy in their look etc...

    Just watch the Tsubomi AV 100 guys' sperm swallowing in one day (few hours actually). DISGUSTING... And the girls attitude is so great, she seems so happy to do that. If she is acting, she deserves an Oscar.
     
  23. drewz

    drewz TAG Member

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    LOL you're killing me here! Come on, the only way a white guy can't get a single gf in Japan is if he's incredibly ugly, psychopath-level scary, or maybe in some tiny remote village of 100 people, teaching English. Even those last two probably get some...

    There's plenty of unappealing aspects to Japanese girls, but your complaints are so over the top!

    You're complaining that many Japanese porn stars are too cute to be in porn? Well the Japanese have a serious cute fetish, of course they are going to try to be cute! Western adults usually prefer sexy and slutty, not cute.

    Anyway seems like you've got some serious hangups about Japanwse girls in the adult industry. Japan's a tough place to be an independent woman, not a lot of career options and the work environment sucks ass. Porn, hostessing, soap lands probably look like a great alternative. And exchanging sex for something, money or not, is how the world has always worked.
     
  24. Lorddisick

    Lorddisick TAG Member

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    Check the first message of this topic...
    I didn't say it's impossible to get one, I said it's not easy. And it's less easy to get one as cute as some idols or porn actresses.

    I don't see where. Go another country and you will see it's much easier with women, in every aspects.

    Sexy and slutty mean the girl is ugly ? In Western world, we like cute girls too. In Japan, the difference is they love them very young, childish.

    Millions of them are doing fine too. When you are cute, there are other ways than doing porn. "Talent" or shit like these for example.
    Swallowing sperm, pee, poo or things like these is really a giant leap.

    If you do think it's a great alternative, you've got a strange conception of what's great. As a father, you would like this for your daughter ?
     
  25. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    @drewz

    Are you assuming that only White men are in Japan or use this website?

    What happened to Asian men from other countries, Latinos, Blacks, India, Turks, Arabs, etc...

    Are you assuming that just about all Whites do well with Japanese?

    It's interesting to assume that only other ethnic groups can't do well or that White guys can't also have problems dating Japanese women. There are a long range of reasons of why guys can have problems and I've seen it happen to all types in Japan.

    And Japanese anti-foreigner groups can target Whites too...


    (The famous White Pig Go Home video. Fun starts at 2:15)
     
    #25 Solong, May 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013

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