Strategies For A Short Visit

[IronGiant]

I'm in my forties, married and living in the US. We have wonderful kids. Unfortunately our marriage itself has devolved to a sexless formality.

I lived in Japan for more than eight years and I am fluent in Japanese. I'll be visiting Tokyo for a short while in the near future on business.

I am so LONELY, and it has been so LONG! I just want to meet someone and have feelings again. I am hoping to try to connect with a woman for a short-term relationship during my upcoming brief stay. (P4P is of no interest, frankly.)

Could the group please give me some thoughts on the following proposed plans?

PLAN 1: Post ads on Metropolis and Craigslist. Each ad is in BOTH English and Japanese and reads: "White male American businessman, mid-forties, married. Previously lived in Japan for more than eight years, fluent in Japanese. Visiting Tokyo on business next month for ten days. Interested in meeting Japanese woman for Japanese-English language exchange."

The idea here is to give the woman (especially a married woman) plausible deniability. I'd appreciate any comments and thoughts.

PLAN 2: Post ads on Metropolis and Craigslist. Each ad is in Japanese ONLY and reads: "International businessman, white, mid-forties, athletic but a little pudgy, American, sexless marriage. Previously lived in Japan for more than eight years, fluent in Japanese. Visiting Tokyo on business next month for ten days. Interested in meeting married Japanese woman, mid-thirties or older, two or three times during my stay for friendship, sightseeing, and fun."

I've specified "married" and "mid-thirties or older" principally because I don't want to get messages from P4P professionals. I'd appreciate the group's thoughts on whether this sort of thing is a real problem. (And if it is, then are there generally telltale signs that a communication is from a professional?)

PLAN 3: Do both Plan 1 and Plan 2 above, from different e-mail addresses, etc., and perhaps with slight modifications to the text to make the ads seem less alike.

Does it seem likely that these plans might help me attract willing candidate(s)? I'd appreciate any advice, suggested tweaks to the language of the ads, and/or completely different strategies.

BTW, assuming that I get sufficient responses, the plan in each case would be to "stack" the meetings (as Solong has suggested in the past), and to meet women for coffee initially, in an area of Tokyo near business establishments that could permit escalation of the relationship if the opportunity presents itself (as Solong also has suggested in the past).

(I'll also have business cards with a substitute identity and contact information, if I should happen to meet a likely prospect by chance, but because my stay will be short I don't want to rely too much upon that sort of luck.)

Many thanks!

 

[IronGiant]

Scotty, thanks so much for your advice! I'm so glad that you responded; I have really enjoyed several of your insightful posts recently.

After reading the only other thread on this board that I could find about Ashley Madison, I had got the idea that the group consensus was that it was essentially a big waste of time. So I really appreciate your perspective.

I do have an observation, however: as you yourself have mentioned before, although it is incorrect to suppose that most or all Japanese women are interested in foreign men, there is a certain percentage -- i.e., from 1% to 5% -- who fit this description, more or less. So it can be a waste of time for a foreign man to hit on Japanese women indiscriminately. Rather, it may be better for a foreign man to seek out Japanese women who are "pre-qualified" in some way, such as because they have lived abroad, or because they are at an international-oriented event, or because they are reading personal ads written in English, etc.

So my question is this: although the women on AM may be "pre-qualified" for willingness to cheat on their husbands, they don't seem to be "pre-qualified" for interest in foreign men. How do you use AM to find women who are interested in foreign men? I imagine that you don't just send messages indiscriminately. Is there something in particular that you search for? Or do you just sit back and wait for them to message you? If so, then do you have any tips for a good profile?

I think I will get a pre-paid credit card here in the US and use it to sign up for AM. I just hope that AM won't tie me to my credit card ZIP code for some reason, thus preventing me from looking at profiles in Japan.

Is there any extra visibility associated with the "Affair Guarantee" package, or should I just get the "Elite" package, do you think?

Regrettably, our visits to Tokyo will not overlap. Have a great time though!

Many thanks!

 

[Username1]

You sound like a pro AM user there Scotty!

Couple of questions if it's okay:

- what shows up on your credit card bill?

- are the ones you've met Japanese and single or married?

I'm interested in the normal Japanese user and not the usual Filipina on some of the other sites. The ones with nice pics so far seem to be wanting just friendship and not a sexual affair!

 

[meiji]

Yeah, I don't get women that are on AM or even sugar baby sites that either state in their profile or when they talk to you that they are just looking for something platonic. :\

The worst are the Eikaiwa trolls who doll themselves up for their profile pics and hint at being willing to date but are all talk and no action. Every man of experience in Japan knows of what I speak, and their righteous willingness to suck hours and hours of your time to meet their needs and utter unwillingness to spend an hour on what you want. A man has not achieved Master status until he has told a 9 that she isn't worth the hassle, and blocked them in Line (I have only done it to a one 8 and a fistful of 7s and 6s).

Yup. I met a girl off a site (might have been conversationexchange) who was in her early 30s but was an 8 or 9 (maybe a Japanese 7) -- super-cute face, killer body, knew how to dress. She basically wanted to be my platonic activity partner with me paying for everything -- it was curious that about 45 seconds before the check showed up she'd find an excuse to leave the table. I didn't mind paying for a fairly cheap dinner or two because she was genuinely fun to hang out with and frankly would say things occasionally that kept me on the hook for more (she called me up on LINE once late at night and breathily asked if I was thinking about her), but nothing ever happened and not because I didn't try. Then we did a dinner where she spent like ¥5000 on her food, so while I paid for it, I later basically told her 'sorry, I don't buy expensive dinners for women I'm not dating' and coincidentally enough I never heard from her again. Such a surprise.

 

[IronGiant]

On precisely this subject, can anyone give me some ideas of written phrases in Japanese that imply, somewhat subtly, that a non-platonic relationship is desired? I'm looking for phrases to use in an initial written contact and/or an ad, etc.

An English equivalent might be something like "Let's meet for sparkling wine, brilliant conversation, and then some real fireworks." (OK, that's pretty lame, but you get the idea.) Or even something simpler like "I'm looking for someone with whom I can connect on both the mental level and the physical level." The object is to make it reasonably clear that I want sex, but in a classy way, without plastering "H" all over the place.

Obviously this is question for those who know their Japanese really well. I've been trawling through listings on Japanese-language deaikei sites but haven't yet found anything that stands out.

 

[IronGiant]

Found it, I think. 「お互いの存在が癒し支えになれるような人、探しています。」"Looking for a person [with whom] our mutual existence will mean healing and support."

It seems to be very widely used. I've created a Yahoo Partner account solely for the purpose of finding correct phraseology (it has full-text search) and 癒し gets about 600 hits.

A beautiful phrase and a noble sentiment. However, I don't think it means セフレ。

 

[IronGiant]

I wouldn't recommend using that term in any communications with your prospects.

Oh heaven forbid!

(I didn't even know what セフレ meant until a couple of days ago. How language evolves!)

 

[MossBoss]

To the OP, I wouldn't mention being married in any ads or to any girl you meet. Many women particularly single ones don't want to get involved with a guy with a wife for various reasons. If you say you are recently divorced so not ready for a serious relationship you will increase your chance to score.

 

[IronGiant]

OK, I bit the bullet and plunked down $300 for 1000 credits on Ashley Madison. That is essentially enough to message 200 women. I haven't started sending messages in earnest yet, because my profile updates are not going through for some reason (I've messaged customer support about that) but I have been making a list of prospects by adding them to my "favorites." Interestingly, when you do this, the system lets the woman know, and so adding many profiles to your favorites will prompt several of the women to view you. And you can see who has viewed you. So those women will be on my short list going forward, I suppose.

 

[GoldenDalton]

I'm laughing at the idea of guys sending penis pics. Why they'd think that would be a successful tactic I don't know, but I find it extremely humorous nonetheless.

 

[GoldenDalton]

OK, I bit the bullet and plunked down $300 for 1000 credits on Ashley Madison. That is essentially enough to message 200 women. I haven't started sending messages in earnest yet, because my profile updates are not going through for some reason (I've messaged customer support about that) but I have been making a list of prospects by adding them to my "favorites." Interestingly, when you do this, the system lets the woman know, and so adding many profiles to your favorites will prompt several of the women to view you. And you can see who has viewed you. So those women will be on my short list going forward, I suppose.

Good luck.

Scotty you are a damn encyclopedia- you need to run a workshop or something. It's great that guys here are helping each other out. That's another aspect of this scene that kicks the crap out of the U.S. manosphere, IMO.

 

[IronGiant]

Good lord, is just my web browser, or is it true that Ashley Madison only stores the last twenty messages in your inbox / outbox? It looks like older messages have become inaccessible to me just because they've dropped off the second page (ten messages per page). How on earth is a user supposed to keep track of correspondence in such a situation? And, what happens if someone gets more than twenty messages before signing on again? Do the extra messages just disappear? Perhaps I should abandon my plan of trying to message 200 women in one single marathon session. (Of course it would be optimistic to expect twenty responses, but still.)

 

[Solong]

Tonight what almost worked for me was "Let's go to a hotel." But then again, she had just given me a five minute diatribe on how foreigners say it straight and the whole Honne thing doesn't work very well.

(In Japanese)

Her: People should just say it straight.

Me: Let's go to a hotel.

Her: What? No.

Me: Okay, now this is awkward.

Her: Laughs.

Given that your ad will be seen by lots if people, just basically saying what you want fairly directly is probably best, unless you want to try and escalate from an ambiguous date to an unambiguous sexual encounter over the course of two hours. It can be done, but I think you can do better. If not for you, for the poor girl showing up thinking she's found a great chance to brush up on her English before she goes to try and have adventure sex in Hawaii on her graduation vacation.

A line I have seen used is "looking for someone who wants to be healed." There is a verb that means comforted or healed, that I have seen used by women on AM. I wish I remember the exact word. I found it odd at the time but for your situation it seems appropriate.

I think that if you post your ad, after you get the right suggestive but not ecchi wording down, and then when you get a reply, take it to Line. Do some elderly chat (innocent talk), then find a way to flirt. Text your prospects late at night their time, see if they are up late at night alone. Collect information. Figure out what alcohol they like. Lay in a stock in your hotel room.

Set up your dates--I recommend stacking them up, about 90 to 120 minutes apart. Only accept dates from those who you gauge as responding positively to your flirting. You may be able to escalate up to a level if "Unless you creep me out when we meet, I'm okay with whatever." Those are gold.

Have a drink, then invite them up to your room for a second drink. If they say no, then you can always say "Well, perhaps some other time. KAIKEI ONEGAI SHIMA--SU! Betsu betsu de!"

If you meet with success, decide what to do with your other prospects. If you prime them appropriately you may be able to salvage some via reschedule but don't bet on it. Folks in Tokyo is busy.

The technique you should study up on is called "Pipelining." Let Google be your friend. What site or method you use is immaterial as long as it works. You want almost in the sack prospects when you arrive, unless you like a challenge.

Donate unused alcohol to a worthy TAG member.

From experience and observation, if you stack dates, 3 hours apart seems best. But that works best on Fridays or weekends. If she is OFF the next day, even if a weekday, and you can handle coming into work after being up half the night, then go for it.

If a date fails, it will usually be at around the 2 hour mark. A lot of Japanese women will EJECT at that time, if they don't like you. It's very weird, but the 2 hour mark is where you will get the strongest vibe of if you are warm or cold. If you break it off, then you need a bit of time to reset and get/meet the next date.

If you let a date go past 3 hours, you start to hit a zone where you should go for sex or else get FRIEND-ZONED by the woman. The more hours you let tick by and do nothing romantic, sexual, or caressing. ... then the deeper you can fall in the friend-zone. If you are not going to do anything sexual that night, better to setup with her for another date and move on.

On working weekdays (Mon-Thur), stacking dates is tough, so I tend not to. Better to meet a regular or take 1 shot. That's because, due to their work schedule, you often won't meet until at least 6pm or 7pm.

 

[Solong]

Yeah, I don't get women that are on AM or even sugar baby sites that either state in their profile or when they talk to you that they are just looking for something platonic. :\



Yup. I met a girl off a site (might have been conversationexchange) who was in her early 30s but was an 8 or 9 (maybe a Japanese 7) -- super-cute face, killer body, knew how to dress. She basically wanted to be my platonic activity partner with me paying for everything -- it was curious that about 45 seconds before the check showed up she'd find an excuse to leave the table. I didn't mind paying for a fairly cheap dinner or two because she was genuinely fun to hang out with and frankly would say things occasionally that kept me on the hook for more (she called me up on LINE once late at night and breathily asked if I was thinking about her), but nothing ever happened and not because I didn't try. Then we did a dinner where she spent like ¥5000 on her food, so while I paid for it, I later basically told her 'sorry, I don't buy expensive dinners for women I'm not dating' and coincidentally enough I never heard from her again. Such a surprise.

This is a common scam by Japanese women, where they try to run off to the BATHROOM when the check comes or when walking to the cashier.

If the woman is working, try to have her pay 1/4 to 1/2 of the bill. If you are worried that a woman will hold it against you. Tell her you are giving her a discount ;-) and she only has to pay 1/3 of the bill. No working Japanese woman in which I made pay 1/3 of the bill (hotel or restaurant), has ever held it against me in terms of us having sex.

When you get the bill, and she runs to the bathroom, wait her out. I would put down 2/3 and wait for ther 1/3.

The only women I pay for are young college students with no side jobs and women with no jobs, that have told me their situation beforehand and are believable. Young college students are usually obvious. If she is older than 23, then I might test her about not having a job by asking a few extra questions. Particularly watch how she is dressed and asking a little bit about spending habits to trap liars.

Making working women pay at least 1/3 has worked very well and I highly recommend it.

 

[Solong]

I'd say just contact the first 100 that you like the most and see what you get.

Guys might want to be careful about spamming a site. It's often better to try only 10 or so, then make an assessment of how effective that was. If the reply percentage is low, then think about tweaking your profile or message. Why?

1) Say you send 100 messages and get 20 responses, are you going to date 20 women that week?

Usually no. So you can end up wasting women that might have went out with you and had sex later on.

2) Women play the game of having multiple profiles OR communicating with each other about messages they got from guys.

When you send a lot of SPAM, you might be sending 2 or 3 messages to the SAME woman (with different profiles). You might also become known as a guy that sends SPAM and the women start WARNING each other or making fun of your messages.

3) Some websites have quiet defenses against guys sending out what they consider SPAM. Many of your messages can be deleted.

4) Smaller amounts of messages can help you tweak your profile and for the guy to calculate how effective he is being or how good is the site.

Tweaks can lead to higher response rates. But, you must be willing to take the pain of not always doing so well. But once you identify what works, you can use that on OTHER online dating sites too.

Just some suggestions from hard learned experience.

 

[IronGiant]

Today I spent three or four hours on a basic message (in Japanese, with space for some tailoring) and sent it to 18 women. I just finished. I've received one single-sentence response so far.

I also "favorited" about fifty women; I'll see how many look at my profile and then message the ones that do.

 

[IronGiant]

Yes, that ten-person limit on the "Who Viewed Me" list is the main reason why I decided to limit my "favoriting" substantially.

I should add that another aspect of this "favorite-and-then-see-who-views-me" approach is to use a profile photo that is essentially just a view of my face filling the entire frame and which, although obscured with one of the mask-badges that AM provides, makes it clear that I am a foreigner even at a low resolution. The reason for this is that I want a woman receiving my message to be able to see just from viewing her list of "favorites" - without clicking through - that I am a foreigner. So if she is not interested in a foreigner, then she just won't click me, plain and simple, and that's great with me. My previous profile photo was taken from something of a distance and perhaps made it difficult to discern my race without a click-through.

I've been limiting myself to women my age (mid-forties) and lower. However, today when drafting my message in Japanese I trolled through a lot of profiles of older (about 49 and up) women in order to ransack them for good Japanese phraseology. I decided expressly to lift words from their profiles because I did not intend to message those older women later. (Wouldn't want to send a women's own sentence back at her!). However, reading some of their profile statements actually got me pretty steamed up despite myself. Some of these older women are downright horny and are downright explicit about it. So, anyone have any thoughts about pursuit of the over-fifty Japanese woman? Any tales, observations or advice?

By the way, this group, and Scotty in particular, have been an extraordinary help to me. Thank you all so much. By way of thanks I intend to keep all of you appraised on the details of my pursuit and of my successes (if any). Go TAG!

 

[Solong]

@IronGiant

It's very common for older Japanese women to try to hook up with younger guys. They think they can play games with and control younger guys.

It can get very annoying, as Japanese women at your same age group or younger will infrequently respond, but you can get a flood of older women.

I wouldn't mind so much, but a lot of older women are sexually dysfunctional, bat shit crazy, or go out of their way to trick and cheat guys. Like running to the bathroom when the dinner check comes, acting like they are 40 year old near virgins, or bad technique in bed (despite their age).

You might want to put that you are younger, as then you might get Japanese women your same age to respond.

 

[IronGiant]

OK, I've sent about 30 messages and I've got two women who have expressly stated that they want to meet, with a third who seems to be leaning that way.

Scotty, I won't be able to bring women back to my hotel bar or room (colleagues will be traveling with me, several female) and so I'll need other logistics.

I know the areas with love hotels and most of them have pretty unfortunate reputations. I mean, a woman wants to be invited out to a place like Meguro or Shirogane or Nishi-Azabu or Omote-Sando, not to an unsavory place like Uguisudani or Gotanda or Shin-Okubo or (heaven forbid) Kabukicho. And women in my age category don't want to go to Shibuya either. (Fortunately I've not yet joined the Sugamo crowd.)

Has anyone found a secret spot that sort of bridges the gap here between style and sinfulness? Say, at the edge of a high-class area but with a couple of love hotels within a reasonable walk? Ideally I'd want (1) an independent cafe, (i.e. not a Starbucks or Excelsior, etc.), within a five-minute walk of (2) a bookstore, and of (3) a reasonably priced French restaurant, with (4) a love hotel within fifteen minutes afoot or (as a last resort) by cab. But this is just the ideal; I imagine I'll have to settle for less. Any ideas?

 

[Solong]

@IronGiant

Looks like Meguro or Ebisu can work for you.

Ebisu:

Hotel Luxe near Ebisu JR east exit is good.

There are 3 hotels very close together. The other is Hotel Us and Hotel Heart.

There are several restaurants near the hotel. Come early and walk around the area, then choose.

http://goo.gl/maps/B10aO


Meguro:

Near the Meguro JR WEST exit (5 minute walk) there are several restaurants, clubs, and hotels.

You can try Meguro Taveren (also known as London Pub)

http://maps.google.com/?cid=1996797625585250130&hl=en&gl=us

Hotels:

Note- There is a hotel very close to the London Pub and same side of the street, but it's not a love hotel. It's very expensive and almost always booked.

Verdure (across the street from the Meguro Tavern, over a pedestrian bridge and slightly down a small side street)
http://goo.gl/maps/L2Wki

Meguro Emperor- a little further down and away from the London Pub, opposite direction of the train station. When you see the water, turn left down a side street.

http://goo.gl/maps/MLPPc

 

[Sudsy]

A little-known resource is the Hotel Azabu - a short walk from Roppongi Hills, and all the fine restaurants in the area.

Parking is available, and while it's a little pricey, the rooms are well kitted out and stylish.

Nishi-azabu 1-3-10, Minato-ku.

https://goo.gl/maps/6JRGd

 

[IronGiant]

OK, here are the current results for my use of AM:

- Number of profiles that I've "favorited" on the site: 252 (all married and presumably looking to stray, ages 29 to 52)
- Number of women who either (a) looked at my profile, (b) asked for my profile picture or (c) made some other minor contact after I "favorited" them: 47
(- Number of women who sent me a full-blown message without any contact from me: 0)
- Number of women with whom I now am engaged actively in ongoing online conversations: 5 to 8 (3 of these are less active so far, or have declined in activity)
- Ages of women with whom I now am engaged actively in ongoing online conversations: from 38 to 52 (my stated age is mid-forties)
- Number of AM credits used: 265

I should add that all this is taking place exclusively in Japanese. I think one of my top prospects might speak just a little English.

I'll keep you all posted. I've got about two weeks until departure. Say, if my time in town runs from a Monday night through the following Sunday night, then what do you think is the maximum number of women I should (or could) meet? I'm worried about hitting a physical limit if I keep this up. Perhaps I should stop soon. (I also could just decide to keep Saturday and/or Sunday largely open in case I meet a real "favorite" whom I want to see again.)

And what's a good average budget for a reasonably classy date, assuming everything goes according to plan?

 

[GoldenDalton]

It's not my place to tell another guy what to do, but I've found that p4p is really nice on shorter trips. I used to be against it but it can really make short trips more fulfilling.

Trying to date a beautiful woman on a short trip can be stressful. When I was last in Europe I met a Bulgarian beauty who was clearly interested but turned off by my short stay. Of course, there are those women who will be turned on precisely for that reason, but you
still have to approach and run game and all that.

You can get lucky, but it's a lot of work , at least it is for me. You have to put yourself out there and be forward as you don't have much time, but you also don't wanna come across as desperate, which can be easy to do if you want that particular " flag" and your time starts to run out.

Last time I did p4p it was from 6-10 pm. After that I got some good rest and was able to get up early and visit a museum and some other places. Whenever I've been in bars and gone to a hotel with a chick, I've never been able to do something like that the next day.

But that's just me- I respect your opinion I'm just throwing mine out there as I once disdained p4p but now wish I had on shorter trips for sure.

 

[Cobra_X30]

OK, here are the current results for my use of AM:
- Number of profiles that I've "favorited" on the site: 252 (all married and presumably looking to stray, ages 29 to 52)
- Number of women who either (a) looked at my profile, (b) asked for my profile picture or (c) made some other minor contact after I "favorited" them: 47
(- Number of women who sent me a full-blown message without any contact from me: 0)
- Number of women with whom I now am engaged actively in ongoing online conversations: 5 to 8 (3 of these are less active so far, or have declined in activity)
- Ages of women with whom I now am engaged actively in ongoing online conversations: from 38 to 52 (my stated age is mid-forties)
- Number of AM credits used: 265
I should add that all this is taking place exclusively in Japanese. I think one of my top prospects might speak just a little English.
I'll keep you all posted. I've got about two weeks until departure. Say, if my time in town runs from a Monday night through the following Sunday night, then what do you think is the maximum number of women I should (or could) meet? I'm worried about hitting a physical limit if I keep this up. Perhaps I should stop soon. (I also could just decide to keep Saturday and/or Sunday largely open in case I meet a real "favorite" whom I want to see again.)
And what's a good average budget for a reasonably classy date, assuming everything goes according to plan?

Scotty seems to be a Jedi Master at this stuff in Japan. That said... Would you prefer a number of short cheap encounters or one deeper connection?

 

[IronGiant]

You can get lucky, but it's a lot of work , at least it is for me.

Oh, this has been extraordinarily time-consuming indeed. I have spent hours and hours writing messages in Japanese and triple-checking them for accuracy. On the plus side, it's given me some good writing practice. On the even-more-plus side, I've got five dates definitely lined up now (well, let's say "definitely" for now, until I inevitably get stood up once or twice) with probably more on the way.

I've found that p4p is really nice on shorter trips.

On the subject of P4P vs. me voluntarily shouldering this truly crushing burden (I'm not exaggerating), I suppose that at the moment, I just want a bit of what so many women want -- attention and validation. Frankly I've got a pretty strong "feminine side" to my character; a great deal of empathy and a need for closeness and real feeling. Oh, and that other thing too, of course.

Also, nice how you just know your female coworkers would be very eager to inform your wife of your doings or otherwise destroy you in the fires of feminist hell. Bitches.

Actually, Scotty, I wasn't being fair. The greatest risk is not my female co-workers, it's my holier-than-thou born-again male colleague who would not hesitate to save my soul from sin by telling my wife, etc.