Things You Would Change About Japan

[Expired Beef!]

Not all! Good rant! But J women have a lot more power than people give them credit for.

 

[Solong]

Wait, what? Seriously? I don't know how what the general feminist's stand-point is in the US (which is what I assume the country you're talking about) but the political climate in Sweden is really different. You'd get a lot of shit for saying that where I come from as it just sounds like a bunch of ignorant bigots with a deep inability to comprehense cultures other than their own. The same goes for sex-negative feminists whom believe prostitution is inherently damaging to women and men, when it's actually laws criminalizing and persecuting these people that's dangerous and hurtful. Of course the existence of sex slaves is a huge concern, but that is called trafficking and is something else entirely.

I believe Nina Hartley sums up my view on prostitution and sex-positive feminism perfectly:

"Sex isn't something men do to you. It isn't something men get out of you. Sex is something you dive into with gusto and like it every bit as much as he does."

What Goldendalton was saying is a common criticism and attack on Western men that like Japan or Asian women in general. An example of such an attack is below-

Such attacks are also quite hypocritical, because it's not said of Western women in Asia or with Asian men, which is often characterized as "true love" or "pure". As if Western women couldn't have ulterior motives for being with Asian men like sex, fetishes, money, etc... It also ignores Western men that have a fascination with Asian culture beyond women, such as: Martial Arts (which men are way more likely to be into and my reason for coming by the way...), history, language, manga, anime, natural curiosity of a different culture, etc...

 

[John Chavers]

I believe Nina Hartley sums up my view on prostitution and sex-positive feminism perfectly

 

[Solong]

Nina Hartley

 

[John Chavers]

I was impressed that a 21yr old from Sweden knows about Nina.

 

[Solong]

I was impressed that a 21yr old from Sweden knows about Nina.

Obi-wan Kenobi, Nina Hartley, & a young 21 year old sex positive feminist got me thinking...

"The Force Awakens"

 

[meiji]

Let's try to get this back on topic, thanks.

 

[GoldenDalton]

"Sex Positive Feminism" (or whatever the appropriate term is- I have no experience) does not exist in a significant way in the U.S.

This could be a U.S. Thing- the U.S. has always been somewhat " puritanical" in some aspects. I can't imagine what "Sex positive " would mean?Anyway, I've never seen it outside of Camille Paglia and some other writers who aren't in the feminist mainstream.



But about the anti- western men going with eastern women issue, it's really very simple.

1. U.S. Society is structured to benefit women's sexuality much more than that of men, which is largely vilified.

2. American women want their cake and to eat it, too. They want to spend their most attractive years dating " exciting" types who don't plan for the future. After their looks begin to age and they can't continue with that ( usually late 20s early 30s) they seek to marry a "Nice guy" who is supposed to be waiting, held in reserve for when they'll need him.

International Dating upturns the Apple cart. Those men who are more conscientious don't have to wait for American women to " find themselves,"
I.E. sleep with tons of losers, and can instead travel to say, Asia, and find a perfectly qualified mate who will appreciate their qualities. Thus by the time the American girl hits 30 and is looking for the "stable, nice guy,"' she scorned so many years, they are out of luck, as he's now with an asian stunner.


It's especially bad for my ethnic group ( here I go again- but it's relevant I promise!). My people have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the United States.

And that means that when the " bad boys" are done chasing them, the women demand not only your attention, but that you also serve as a provider for their thug spawn. If I'm going to pay for a child I want it to be my own.

 

[meiji]

Again, the topic at hand is 'Things you would change about Japan'. Feel free to open another thread on "World sex politics" if you'd like. If we keep off-topic, I'll just lock this. Thanks.

 

[GoldenDalton]

Again, the topic at hand is 'Things you would change about Japan'. Feel free to open another thread on "World sex politics" if you'd like. If we keep off-topic, I'll just lock this. Thanks.

Noted- I just didn't see your above post earlier.

 

[TheDutchElm]

What Goldendalton was saying is a common criticism and attack on Western men that like Japan or Asian women in general. An example of such an attack is below-

[snip charisma man comic]

I cried the smallest tear. There's a difference between having preferences and coming over here swinging your dick at anything Asian looking because there aren't any Western women to tell you what a creep you are. If I could change something about Japan, it would be a hell of a lot fewer of these guys coming over to "escape the oppression of Western women". Whenever I hear this mantra, I think about how exactly NONE of it seems to apply to my personal situation. I'm still getting all the sex I want almost exclusively with Western women in Japan and without turning into a bitter Asian collector with a chip on his shoulder.

I can't imagine what "Sex positive " would mean?

You can't even imagine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

 

[Ladylisa]

[snip charisma man comic]

I cried the smallest tear. There's a difference between having preferences and coming over here swinging your dick at anything Asian looking because there aren't any Western women to tell you what a creep you are. If I could change something about Japan, it would be a hell of a lot fewer of these guys coming over to "escape the oppression of Western women". Whenever I hear this mantra, I think about how exactly NONE of it seems to apply to my personal situation. I'm still getting all the sex I want almost exclusively with Western women in Japan and without turning into a bitter Asian collector with a chip on his shoulder.



You can't even imagine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

I'm a western woman and I like men .... And you know what, I don't think I'm a dried up old bitch.
I have absolutely no problem if they want to date Japanese women. I have good friends who are involved with Japanese women who are also my good friends.
Haha... Sometimes I will be having a beer with my male friends and they will start checking out women and it's just a laugh... And I'll join in

For various reasons I have come back to wanting to date western men again - and have had some lovely lovers and FWB who are foreign men living in Japan.

I have no animosity against foreign men in Japan.

I do however have animosity against foreign guys who claim that all weatern women are evil ugly ball-breaking harpies - and take every opportunity to speak crap about western women.

And it's really mean nasty hateful stuff.
Why do they need to do that?
What have I ever done to them?

 

[Ladylisa]

I guess the problem for *some* foreign guys is that I can see through their bullshit more than the Japanese girls can.

That was always the point of Charisma man.
It was that the foreign women could see through the "superhero" to the guy underneath.


I know that sometimes when I've been out dancing I've ended up dancing with and talking to Japanese girls. There will be guys hitting on them and they will ask me if I think he's a nice guy or a playboy.
If he seems like a genuinely nice guy then I'm not going to stand in his way, but if I can see that he is an arsehole and full of bullshit I'm going to tell her.

And to be honest, the way he interacts with me will partially determine that.

 

[psd]

That was always the point of Charisma man.
It was that the foreign women could see through the "superhero" to the guy underneath.

I don't think the foreign women (or anyone else) came out of that particularly well.

 

[Ladylisa]

I don't think the foreign women (or anyone else) came out of that particularly well.

I was here in Japan when the comic first came out and I remember it well.

No the western women don't come out of it very well, but it is also the world as "Charisma Man" sees it.

 

[TAG Manager]

And it's really mean nasty hateful stuff.
Why do they need to do that?
What have I ever done to them?

You know what? I try to be polite and friendly with the foreign women I meet because, hey, it's nice to converse in my home language. Very often, I get the cold shoulder from these women I run into. Professionally, it works out fine... but it doesn't go beyond that. Note: I don't give them a snotty attitude back; because I just assume there's something else going on there.

My personal life is a story and half; but I'd love to have some American chick in the friends/fwb category to do stuff with and even just veg out on American tv stuff. lol -- It doesn't work with a Japanese girl 'cause they don't get it half the time. :/

 

[Ladylisa]

You know what? I try to be polite and friendly with the foreign women I meet because, hey, it's nice to converse in my home language. Very often, I get the cold shoulder from these women I run into. Professionally, it works out fine... but it doesn't go beyond that. Note: I don't give them a snotty attitude back; because I just assume there's something else going on there.

My personal life is a story and half; but I'd love to have some American chick in the friends/fwb category to do stuff with and even just veg out on American tv stuff. lol -- It doesn't work with a Japanese girl 'cause they don't get it half the time. :/

Fair enough.
I guess I don't see that because that's not the way I am - nor do I think my friends are.
I have a lot of friendly interaction with foreign men here (and not just with my American FWBs )

Perhaps there's some proactive defensive stuff happening on both sides.

 

[TheDutchElm]

I just find Western women so much more generally sexually liberated and willing to explore arrangements that don't involve serial monogamy, serial cheating, and fast-tracking everything to marriage and kids. I have several FWBs who all know each other and are good friends. I can't ever see that happening with two or more Japanese girls. As Chris says, I think most of their brains would just melt. It doesn't compute.

Departure from tradition is not something Japan handles well, which is something else I would change about Japan: Japanese people need more slack to do things their own way regardless of what other members of society think they should do. I know that collective action and agreement versus individualism is just one of those East-West things that'll never go away, but the consequences of peer pressure in sex are rarely good. You absolutely know there's a Japanese girl out there right now who gets gushing wet at the thought of being cuckolded. And there's a Japanese guy out there who gets his rocks off jerking it to chicks-with-dicks porn. Those aren't exactly interests you put on your professional CV in the West either, but in Japan if they want society to give them the time of day, they'll take those kinks to their graves. I think that's painfully sad no matter what culture you come from. And I do know that the solution isn't more sexual repression and conformity.

That's why sex positive feminism is something I strongly support in men and women to get rid of the bad behaviors some people dislike about Western female sexuality: female "gate-keeping" behavior being paramount among them. That is a -conservative- impulse with -conservative- traditional roots in how women are supposed to behave (protect daddy's property between your legs until he can sell it to another man). I feel like the only difference between Western conservative sexuality and the Japanese version is that 1) Japan's doesn't have a religious shame component and 2) it's easier to run rough-shod over a lot of women here because they're ignorant about sex and dating culture or have a fixed view of how it's supposed to work. And because they're taught to defer to men.

 

[Solong]

For various reasons I have come back to wanting to date western men again - and have had some lovely lovers and FWB who are foreign men living in Japan.

It isn't unusual for Westerners to switch back and forth between dating Japanese and other Westerners, especially if they aren't married or got divorced and stayed in Japan.

I've had several periods of dating Japanese only, only other foreigners, and mixed combinations. I'm pretty much full rainbow now. It depends on the woman that I happen to meet, and our attraction and chemistry.

My pals are quite interesting. Some are very Japanese only types, and have a lot of animosity towards Western women, where others are into diversity and international relationships beyond just with Japanese.

Tokyo is such an international city. It can be very exciting dating people from all over the world, and it's often easier for foreigners to talk with each and there can be less cultural problems than with Japanese.

 

[Ladylisa]

It isn't unusual for Westerners to switch back and forth between dating Japanese and other Westerners, especially if they aren't married or got divorced and stayed in Japan.

I've had several periods of dating Japanese only, only other foreigners, and mixed combinations. I'm pretty much full rainbow now. It depends on the woman that I happen to meet, and our attraction and chemistry.

My pals are quite interesting. Some are very Japanese only types, and have a lot of animosity towards Western women, where others are into diversity and international relationships beyond just with Japanese.

Tokyo is such an international city. It can be very exciting dating people from all over the world, and it's often easier for foreigners to talk with each and there can be less cultural problems than with Japanese.

I've dated all over the rainbow myself in my life including Japanese of course, but I actually have found myself *only* interested in western guys for a fair while- and although it's not a deliberate choice I've found myself getting involved with guys of the same nationality and similar physical type.
I'm not American, but I only end up dating white Americans under 5'10" - and I've been very happy with my choices.

Edit: And I think we are way off topic now

 

[Solong]

You know what? I try to be polite and friendly with the foreign women I meet because, hey, it's nice to converse in my home language. Very often, I get the cold shoulder from these women I run into. Professionally, it works out fine... but it doesn't go beyond that. Note: I don't give them a snotty attitude back; because I just assume there's something else going on there.

My personal life is a story and half; but I'd love to have some American chick in the friends/fwb category to do stuff with and even just veg out on American tv stuff. lol -- It doesn't work with a Japanese girl 'cause they don't get it half the time. :/

My experience has been that it usually depends on how long the Western women I'm dealing with have been in Japan and if they are married or engaged to a Japanese guy.

Like foreign female tourists can do the Charisma man accusation thingy. Had it happen at a HUB around 2 months ago. Got a bit catty when my pal (not into HUB, but we ended up their that particular night) and we pulled 2 Japanese women at the next table. Took them to a happening bar Anyway, I guess we were suppose to swear an oath of celibacy while in Japan, as far as those Western women were concerned (2 of the 3 were British). But jealous foreign women isn't always bad. Had a hot Spanish female college student actually pull me away from talking to a cute Japanese woman I had my sites on in the train. I ended up going back to her tiny ass apartment after stopping off for more drinks, and I was drunk when we met. We bonded by talking about every problem we had in Japan. And we did this mostly speaking Japanese, as her English was terrible. Hilarious when I think about it.

Anyway, it appears if the Western women were/are say a college student or has lived here a few years, they tend to be more international minded and understanding of other foreigners here more.

With married foreign women, it can be that foreign men don't fit in their little world or bubble. I've seen the reverse and married foreign men (with Japanese wives) do the same to foreign women. Kind of shutting people out that they don't feel are important in their self made little universe or too caught up in their routine. Hell, I had a couple of married foreign friends, other guys, cut me and other pals off. Caught up in their married life and kids.

I think when it comes to foreign women, Internet date sites, International parties, sometimes trains, and Roppongi seems to work. I could maybe write a book on my meeting up with all kinds of nationalities of foreign women in Roppongi alone. But for whatever reason, running into foreign women outside the mentioned tends to be a very randomly unexpected event for me otherwise.

 

[Wwanderer]

Although it is hard (for all of us) to resist thinking about such generalizations as those being discussed her, they are actually MUCH worse than useless imo because they lead to strongly self-fulfilling expectations. Unless you have actually read the technical psychological literature or maybe taken a *relevant* psychology course (and I don't mean an intro "survey" course...PSY 101 or whatever), you probably vastly underestimate how powerful and compelling such expectation biases are. If you believe X is true about Y type women, you won't even notice the exceptions most of the time, even if they are quite numerous. And when you do notice them, you will soon forget them. If you take the trouble to investigate such biases, you may begin to doubt much of what you believe to be true...in many many contexts, not just the one being discussed here of course. It is the underlying reason that intelligent and well inform/experienced people can hold completely contradictory views with total confidence that they are right and those who disagree with them are totally wrong...but I digress.

Anyway, although they are admittedly fun to debate in conversations like this one, my advice is to do your level best to push such generalizations out of your mind and completely ignore them when dealing with the real world. In the context of this discussion it means trying to forget what you think you know about "typical" Japanese/Western women/men when meeting or dating an actual individual one. You will not, of course, entirely succeed in getting rid of your expectations based on prior experience or learning (probably no one can), but to the extent you succeed you will get to experience a much broader and richer world of relationships than the one you believe to be possible/likely.

All that said, my own history is that the most meaningful and best relationships I've had with Japanese women have been with ones who have lived abroad for some significant period of time (say a year or more), but obviously this may be nothing more than a filter/bias for those Japanese women with whom I am more likely to be able to communicate well and who are more likely to be open to having a gaijin partner in the first place.

-Ww

 

[just4fun]

Hmmm, I'm a white american just under 5-10.......

 

[Ladylisa]

Hmmm, I'm a white american just under 5-10.......

Hehe ... You didn't think you'd be someone's specific preferred type did you?

There are a couple of other factors that are important of course....

 

[just4fun]

Hi Lisa.....I usually sick back and read and throw a comment here and there......anything for a chuckle......
I know, I know.....there's surely to be several more important items involved.......but it made you snicker......mission accomplished