A friend of mine is dating a woman I was into. Was it a shitty thing to do?

[Lasagna]

Though he obviously has no real life experience of the high school chess clubs. We didn't talk women, we talked chess. I mean at least we had experience with that.

I was in a chess club in elementary school and noone talked except the noobs who lost after 10 minutes. The pro's always busy concentrating.

 

[Frenchy]

The longer you wait the higher chance she puts you in the friendzone.

Well they can be friends first then more later... Again, if the goal is just to fuck as many women as possible its not the best approach, granted, but its not what he wants...

 

[MikeH]

Well they can be friends first then more later... Again, if the goal is just to fuck as many women as possible its not the best approach, granted, but its not what he wants...

True to that, but also he is trying to find one girl and one girl only to be his wife and life partner. And we both know that is very unlikely to be the first girl who gives her the time of the day. Instead he needs to practise a lot to learn about girls and himself. Only that way he knows when he find The One and Only.

Or then he is just like we all when we are young and goes "I want to live my whole life with that girl, she is amazing and smart and interesting and beautiful; and I know this all because she gave me an excellent blowjob".

 

[Lasagna]

Well they can be friends first then more later... Again, if the goal is just to fuck as many women as possible its not the best approach, granted, but its not what he wants...

That's wishful thinking. It's not how it works though.

 

[greenhawk]

You are confusing me my young friend. I already started to answer twice and then deleted everything. I am just now going to assume that was actually a serious question and answer to that. If instead you made the post in jester and are now laughing your ass out with your buddies while downing serious amounts of Asahi Super Dry I am old enough to take that laughter and ridicule.

If you are thinking one of these girls will become your girlfriend, mother to your babies and the love of your life then NO, it's not OK to ask them for coffee now. Because that ship has sailed already; by waiting that long everyone of these girls has now labeled you as either gay or just not interested in them.

If you are interested in someone why don't ask her for a coffee the first time you meet? You can't you say? Why? If you meet an interesting guy and want to talk with him wouldn't you ask him to sit down for a beer? If someone, girl or a boy, would ask you the same what would you do? Be flattered and then say yes or no, right? Guess what, the girl you are asking is doing the same.

If she says yes then go and have a cup of coffee and find out what she is really like. If she says no then you know and can move on. Problem solved.

Now bookmark this post and come back to visit it in few years. I am pretty sure you also will be baffled by your own question by then.

I was 100% serious because this is all new to me apparently. I always thought if a guy liked me just asked a woman out too quickly it would come off as too weird. I would wait for something that looked like she was interested. I will try what you said though and start asking women out when I find them interesting instead of waiting months for an opening.

 

[greenhawk]

I disagree, he can still ask the 3 girls for a coffee and try to go deeper, what’s to lose?
Maybe not inviting them all together though...
I had a girl asking me out after 1 full year of basically pretending there’s nothing and making fun of me , ok that was in high school but still.

These women are teachers at a school I go to once a week so my time I get to talk to them isn't a whole lot. Usually it is in the morning while the kids are coming to school or out on the playground. When ever I eat lunch in their class room I try to get some small talk in too and then after school I try to talk to them if they come by my room or I am in their room playing with students. It is not like I am talking to them all day constantly. But I am going to take your advice and ask one of them to coffee this week when I see her, if I get the chance. Like you guys said if she says no then she says no and move on to the next woman. What is she going to do? Accuse me of being a stalker because a nerdy guy asked her out like that girl in 10th grade lol?

 

[greenhawk]

When I was single, I’d ask a woman out in a heartbeat - the whole point of “dating” is to figure out if you like ‘em or not.

As to your mental state - you just wrote an angst-filled novel because a guy started dating a woman you didn’t show interest in. You’re pretty clearly less than OK.

Give counseling a try.

I just always had this idea that guys like me had to know the woman for a small amount of time before asking her out. I don't remember how I got to that conclusion and now I am sitting here trying to think about it. Regardless things are going to be different now.

 

[Frenchy]

That's wishful thinking. It's not how it works though.

Yeah the only way « it works » is obviously to ask a girl asap if she wants to fuck , caveman style, and not waste time on trying to know a bit more about her beforehand... also being friends first is a sex-repellent, can’t happen,ever... besides what’s the use of being friend with women anyway?.. that’s for gays or nerds!

...come on, its the 21st century now!

 

[greenhawk]

Who said she wasn’t gonna meet? Until you’re stood up, don’t just make up that assumption.
.

Well he said if I do not get an enthusiastic yes then it is a no. So if she just says "yeah that sounds fun" in a normal tone should I expect her not to show?

When you see a guy and girl together, do you think that of the guy too? Is he only with her because she’s <150cm? Is he with her only because she’s pretty? Could he be with her because of her big beasts? Small chest? Eww, maybe he’s drunk that’s why he’s talking to the ugly girl? That ugly chick must be wild in bed for that guy to want to be with her.
Maybe. Or maybe they just get along well and enjoy each other’s company together.

I honestly hardly ever think about it since men can't be as picky as women. There could be any number of reasons a man is dating a woman because a man doesn't all the same options. If men rejected women soley because their chest was too small, she is not short enough, or he thinks she sin't pretty enough then every man would be single. The other day I saw a guy with a woman a little bit taller then him and I figured he just couldn't be picky and she had other good traits.

First meeting. Maybe a week. A couple months is too late IMO. There’s a small window before you’re friend zoned where you’re able to ask them out. Afterwards it gets more difficult.

So for example next week I will spend 1 day at a school that normally isn't mine. If I see an attractive teacher that looks like my type I can just ask her out that day? Do some words need to at least be exchanged before I ask her out?Or another example. Say the cashier at Starbucks is attractive and comes off as someone I would like. I can ask her before I leave?

OP, do you watch regular TV shows? Movies? Netflix? Do you travel? There’s other things to talk about. Also, what kind of anime? Is it mainstream?

Yes to Netflix shows and while I usually only watch movies if they are comic book or anime based I do make exceptions if the movie looks really good. I have also been getting into AEW and a little back in WWE.

Ask her out and then get her LINE.

Can I ask for her line before the date if it would be helpful? I finish at 5, but that school is always having meetings when I leave. The meetings end before 6, but I figure I would ask for her Line so we can be in contact in case anything comes up. I could just wait at the school instead of calling a taxi, but I don't know if that would come on too strong if I wanted her to give me a ride plus the woman giving the man ride doesn't come off as the most masculine.

Comiket. Animate. Book store. You don’t need a specific meet up gettogether to meet someone specific. That girl that just whooped your ass in Fortnite, ask her out. My friend did that and got a girlfriend that way.

Ideally that would be the type of place I would like to meet women, but I haven't spent enough time in there.

 

[Lasagna]

Yeah the only way « it works » is obviously to ask a girl asap if she wants to fuck , caveman style, and not waste time on trying to know a bit more about her beforehand... also being friends first is a sex-repellent, can’t happen,ever... besides what’s the use of being friend with women anyway?.. that’s for gays or nerds!

...come on, its the 21st century now!

Nice strawman but that's not what I said though.

 

[greenhawk]

You don't have to wait at all. Infact these days women have infinite options with dating apps like Tinder making it so easy. So personally I would make a move TODAY before someone else snatches her away. (wow that rhymes I could be a rapper?!)

Making a move doesn't make you a pervert/creep/predator/whatever you tell yourself. I guess you have been conditioned wrong due to past rejection. It's a self-limiting belief used as a coping mechanism to not having to make a move.

Making a move shows

1) confidence
2) taking initiave
3) adventurous

all 3 nice qualities to have.

In short:
1) Grow a dick
2) Ask women out
3) Repeat step 2 until it becomes natural

Next year you will laugh at your own sob story

Alright I will try what you guys said. I have always found confidence to be a form of arrogance and false truths by ignoring the facts around you, but like you all have been saying if the worst really is her saying no then I guess I will try.

 

[greenhawk]

You know what? You're a good sport. And you're obviously looking for constructive criticism. Seriously, the more I read your posts the more you remind me of all my emo-music friends from 20 years ago. Be honest, you're a big Weezer fan??

Thanks, but I only know Weezer from 2 songs. I actually took peoples advice today and went out. Surprising myself I actually went to 2 bars all by myself. The first bar only had gaijin there and the only Japanese woman was someones girlfriend. It was the video game bar and I wasn't doing too much talking and felt I could be doing more. I walked around looking for bars that had at least a decent number of people in them so I would have people to talk to. I ended up going to an Irish bar and when I walked in all of the bar seats were full so I just sat at a table drinking tea and reading manga. However when 2 people left I asked the waitress if I could move to the bar, rather proud of myself on that one. There were only 2 women there, one had to be in her 50's and the other would most likely never given me the time of day, I did however talk to that 50 year old woman and 3 other Japanese guys and had a great time. Yes I wanted women around my age to talk with but I realized I can't control who is in what bar. Despite there not being any women to flirt with I still had a great time talking to those people at the bar for 2 hours and even missed the last train. It was only a 30 minute walk home and I didn't mind. One guy told me he is there everyday and gave me a flyer for an event they are having next weekend too.

 

[Lasagna]

Alright I will try what you guys said. I have always found confidence to be a form of arrogance and false truths by ignoring the facts around you, but like you all have been saying if the worst really is her saying no then I guess I will try.

You need to stop overanalyzing everything. Nothing good comes from it.

 

[Keihan]

Thanks, but I only know Weezer from 2 songs. I actually took peoples advice today and went out. Surprising myself I actually went to 2 bars all by myself. The first bar only had gaijin there and the only Japanese woman was someones girlfriend. It was the video game bar and I wasn't doing too much talking and felt I could be doing more. I walked around looking for bars that had at least a decent number of people in them so I would have people to talk to. I ended up going to an Irish bar and when I walked in all of the bar seats were full so I just sat at a table drinking tea and reading manga. However when 2 people left I asked the waitress if I could move to the bar, rather proud of myself on that one. There were only 2 women there, one had to be in her 50's and the other would most likely never given me the time of day, I did however talk to that 50 year old woman and 3 other Japanese guys and had a great time. Yes I wanted women around my age to talk with but I realized I can't control who is in what bar. Despite there not being any women to flirt with I still had a great time talking to those people at the bar for 2 hours and even missed the last train. It was only a 30 minute walk home and I didn't mind. One guy told me he is there everyday and gave me a flyer for an event they are having next weekend too.

1) You went to an IRISH bar and drank TEA? That is a cardinal sin and you deserve an ass beating.

2) Nothing wrong with banging a 50yo. If you drink enough she might feel like 45, and at least you don't need to worry about getting her pregnant. Plus she might be a really awful mother who stays out at bars all night and has an emotionally-damaged daughter you can creep on if she brings you back to her place.

3) Leave your gay manga crap at home. A guy staring at his stupid comic books does not look approachable. And the number of times a girl is going to approach a guy and say, "Oh, that's SO COOL that you're reading an animated comic book with little girls and talking animals! Wanna come back to my place and fuck??" is exactly NEVER.

You're slowly getting on the right path. Next time, ORDER A FUCKING BEER. A guy who sits at a bar counter and orders a water sets off all sorts of warning signs. If I were a girl I'd assume you were either gay or had date-rape pills up your sleeve. And if you don't drink alcohol, START DRINKING ALCOHOL. If nothing else, you could use the false courage. And next time you rock up to a bar and see there aren't any women at the counter, KEEP MOVING. Nothing wrong with sticking your head in a dozen or so bars in a night.

In my experience, small bars are places where you make friends, and large bars are where you pick up easy ass. There are plus sides to both, but I would suggest you just stick to the large ones and hope for the random encounter. There are a couple of small bars back in Osaka where, during my years living there, I spent two or three nights a week and almost twenty years later I'm still friends with the owners and regulars. We still keep in touch on Facebook messenger and LINE, I pop in whenever I'm back in town, I've watched their kids go from elementary school to the university, watched their businesses expand and if there's anything I need in Japan they take care of it for me...but I never picked up any ass there. Well, once, but that was a freak occurrence. It's generally more difficult to score in an intimate setting where everyone knows everyone else pretty well. Obviously, one of the regulars may introduce you to a friend, and that lends itself toward a relationship, but I avoided that shit like the plague because if/when I fucked up that relationship by being the horrible, drunken, degenerate asshole I was at 25, word would get back to everyone at the bar and I just lost a favorite hangout spot and a lot of friends.

Bigger, anonymous settings with lots of alcohol are my favorite hunting ground. If you're sitting at a bar with a dozen other drunks, none of whom ever plan to see one another ever again after that night, inhibitions are low and opportunities plentiful. I'm assuming you're white so you've already got an advantage, as you just rocking up and grabbing a seat at the bar will draw attention. And you could probably start a conversation with the woman/women next to you with a simple "KONBANWA! GENKI??" as the Japanese will be tickled pink that this stupid gaijin is using Japanese and try to engage you in some sort of dialogue. Then you can use the oldest, lamest but most effective ploy in the book and pretend you're having trouble keeping up the conversation (in English and Japanese) and ask them to help teach you some phrases. They love teaching dumb gaijin some Japanese language skills.

And if you've stopped being a pussy and get really lucky, maybe you can teach one of them what it feels like to get anal in the men's restroom stall of the Blarneystone Irish Pub.

 

[MikeH]

Despite there not being any women to flirt with I still had a great time

Now look what you have done!? You had fun talking to people.

The good thing about going out to try to pick someone up is even if you fail you usually have good time talking to all kinds of people. And that's also an important rule: don't just go creeping around the good looking girls trying to talk to them but talk to anyone. Men, women, bartender, doorman, cleaning lady, the owner's dog. Because it is usually fun, and when you are having fun people around you are having fun and the girls will notice too.

 

[Frenchy]

Now look what you have done!? You had fun talking to people.

The good thing about going out to try to pick someone up is even if you fail you usually have good time talking to all kinds of people. And that's also an important rule: don't just go creeping around the good looking girls trying to talk to them but talk to anyone. Men, women, bartender, doorman, cleaning lady, the owner's dog. Because it is usually fun, and when you are having fun people around you are having fun and the girls will notice too.

Especially the dog. The dog may be the most interesting of the lot. I don’t mean sexually of course.

 

[MikeH]

...come on, its the 21st century now!

Yeah, and you are still projecting like it was the 19th!

As you would be well aware if you read the posts nobody suggested anything like you projected there.

What I was trying to say was you should be interested in people and show it to them too. If the girl doesn't know you'd like to get to know her what is the use of that? If she knows then maybe you get the chance to talk to her more and get to know her.

Nobody is saying you have to fuck her immediately, especially if you are looking for a romantic partner like OP seems to be doing.

 

[Frenchy]

Yeah, and you are still projecting like it was the 19th!

As you would be well aware if you read the posts nobody suggested anything like you projected there.

What I was trying to say was you should be interested in people and show it to them too. If the girl doesn't know you'd like to get to know her what is the use of that? If she knows then maybe you get the chance to talk to her more and get to know her.

Nobody is saying you have to fuck her immediately, especially if you are looking for a romantic partner like OP seems to be doing.

Re-read yourself , Keihan etc...
You just notice you went a bit far in the comical « Be an alpha-male, dude » register and now try to backpedal. It’s cute by the way. Shows you are human

 

[MikeH]

Especially the dog. The dog may be the most interesting of the lot. I don’t mean sexually of course.

I have been in places where the dog was the most interesting one. Even sexually.

But we remained friends only.

The thing is if you don't talk to them you won't know if they are interesting or not.

 

[MikeH]

Shows you are human

Never have I been insulted this bad before.

Not waiting for five months before asking a girl out is not really alpha male in my book. In Japan the girls are even nice when they say no so you can still continue saying good morning to them afterwards and pretend nothing happened.

Even OP noticed maybe his tactics were not the best in the world and made this thread. You are now saying "no, it's OK, just carry on like you did"?

 

[Frenchy]

Never have I been insulted this bad before.

Not waiting for five months before asking a girl out is not really alpha male in my book. In Japan the girls are even nice when they say no so you can still continue saying good morning to them afterwards and pretend nothing happened.

Even OP noticed maybe his tactics were not the best in the world and made this thread. You are now saying "no, it's OK, just carry on like you did"?

No, I don’t give a shit how he relates to women , to be honest.
The point is more : yes, you may want to take your time, yes you may want to be just friends at the beginning, yes carnal desire may come later...
that doesn’t necessarily make you an eunuch or closet gay

 

[MikeH]

The point is more : yes, you may want to take your time, yes you may want to be just friends at the beginning

There is a difference between being friends and just being friendly. The difference is getting to know the other person beyond just greetings once per week.

If asking someone to go out to have a cup of coffee and a friendly chat is nowadays a promise for anal sex then I have surely disappointed a lot of guys during my life without even knowing it.

No, I don’t give a shit how he relates to women , to be honest.

That's really cold. We should ask @warubuta, at least he cares how people feel.

 

[Keihan]

I suppose I'm showing my age by asking this but it's been so long since I lived in Japan and my vodka-soda just recommended the obvious suggestion for OP: Do younger-ish (mid 20s) Japanese still do the konpa/gokon thing? Because if that's still the cool thing to do on Saturday nights, and he's after a genuine relationship, I don't see why he doesn't try this? I mean, things may be different nowadays but back during my years in-country, this was the absolute easiest way to hook-up because the system youngsters used was that the partnering was already predetermined, so even if a guy was an extreme pussy, he already knew which girl was "assigned" to him so that removed one of the more challenging elements for a shy introvert. Shit, all you really had to do was keep pouring your assigned girl drinks and occasionally making her laugh and you were almost guaranteed to get puked on or laid (or sometimes both, if you were talented). The only konpa I ever recall not being successful was one particular night where the konpa had gone well, my friends packed up the girls and the group was headed to JanKa to get even more fucked up and defile the karaoke room, and the guys excused themselves to take a piss before leaving the restaurant.

While one of my friends is pissing at the urinal, due to him 1) being absolutely shitfaced and 2) having a tiny dick that didn't protrude far enough out of his zipper, he inadvertently ended up pissing down the inside of his jeans and not realizing it until his entire right pant leg and shoes were soaked. After we got done laughing at him hysterically, someone had to go out to explain to the waiting girls that this friend wouldn't be coming. They, being nice Japanese girls, were immediately concerned and thought maybe he was sick and needed help and wanted to come into the restroom to get him. In the meantime, friend is inside wailing and panicking and refusing to come out, all the while the rest of us continue laughing hysterically. In the end, I think I might've told the girls that his date was so hot he couldn't help it and was busy furiously masturbating in the stall, which predictably ended with all four girls fleeing and us never hearing from them again. Nobody got laid just because one asshole couldn't aim.

But my point is, the OP might be soft but he does seem like a nice enough guy and I've got to imagine he has friends or coworkers that would be inclined to help him out. I spent so many nights at Za-Watami and Watami and Wara Wara tanking beers with friends and watching the pussy ass college kids do their gokon, and even the socially-challenged, backwards, stunted loser in the group eventually got nice and red and intoxicated and started getting touchy with his date. Shit just works out with that system. Sounds like exactly what the OP needs as part of his training.

 

[Frenchy]

I suppose I'm showing my age by asking this but it's been so long since I lived in Japan and my vodka-soda just recommended the obvious suggestion for OP: Do younger-ish (mid 20s) Japanese still do the konpa/gokon thing? Because if that's still the cool thing to do on Saturday nights, and he's after a genuine relationship, I don't see why he doesn't try this? I mean, things may be different nowadays but back during my years in-country, this was the absolute easiest way to hook-up because the system youngsters used was that the partnering was already predetermined, so even if a guy was an extreme pussy, he already knew which girl was "assigned" to him so that removed one of the more challenging elements for a shy introvert. Shit, all you really had to do was keep pouring your assigned girl drinks and occasionally making her laugh and you were almost guaranteed to get puked on or laid (or sometimes both, if you were talented). The only konpa I ever recall not being successful was one particular night where the konpa had gone well, my friends packed up the girls and the group was headed to JanKa to get even more fucked up and defile the karaoke room, and the guys excused themselves to take a piss before leaving the restaurant.

While one of my friends is pissing at the urinal, due to him 1) being absolutely shitfaced and 2) having a tiny dick that didn't protrude far enough out of his zipper, he inadvertently ended up pissing down the inside of his jeans and not realizing it until his entire right pant leg and shoes were soaked. After we got done laughing at him hysterically, someone had to go out to explain to the waiting girls that this friend wouldn't be coming. They, being nice Japanese girls, were immediately concerned and thought maybe he was sick and needed help and wanted to come into the restroom to get him. In the meantime, friend is inside wailing and panicking and refusing to come out, all the while the rest of us continue laughing hysterically. In the end, I think I might've told the girls that his date was so hot he couldn't help it and was busy furiously masturbating in the stall, which predictably ended with all four girls fleeing and us never hearing from them again. Nobody got laid just because one asshole couldn't aim.

But my point is, the OP might be soft but he does seem like a nice enough guy and I've got to imagine he has friends or coworkers that would be inclined to help him out. I spent so many nights at Za-Watami and Watami and Wara Wara tanking beers with friends and watching the pussy ass college kids do their gokon, and even the socially-challenged, backwards, stunted loser in the group eventually got nice and red and intoxicated and started getting touchy with his date. Shit just works out with that system. Sounds like exactly what the OP needs as part of his training.

You really have deep insights (and experience) about the best of Japanese culture

 

[Sudsy]

OP might be soft but he does seem like a nice enough guy and I've got to imagine he has friends or coworkers that would be inclined to help him out.