Brexit, Yay Or Nay?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Curacao said:
Sorry who disagrees with what? Your post makes no sense.

Also 'if a British exit leads to restriction on EU migrants'... Well there is a big question mark hanging over that point isn't there? In spite of the leave campaign's claims that bre it would reduce the numbers of EU migrants it seems pretty clear that the EU will only allow Britain free trade if it accepts free movement. And the leave campaign knew that and yet still campaigned on the basis of reduced immigration. Like the leave campaigners your logic is all over the place and your grasp on the facts is (willfully or not) rather loose.

There are of course pros and cons on both sides of the argument but I don't think they received a fair hearing during the referendum.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing everything up! We can only hope the Brexit collapses to satisfy people of your ilk and return to the days of importing 500,000 immigrants a year.
 
MossBoss said:
Every region in England voted Out except London. I guess your 'real' people are in London. Widen your circle of associates and listen to different viewpoints.
Click to expand...

I am amazed by the amount of press quotes you use in your posts... Just thought you lectured us recently that one should not believe in what the press says.. I must have missed something, stupid as I am.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-36683083
The above does not come from London, but happened in Coventry. A report from what I assume MossBoss will recognize as part of the "best media" in the world, the BBC.
For those who don't have the time to see the report, it's just a distraught BBC reporter, a black woman, who reports having been insulted ("N..., N,,, didn't you see the results? Go home..."
As I said before, I am not discussing the pros and cons of Brexit. To each his opinions. But I don't think it is fair to ignore the side effects. And worst, like MossBoss in his previous comments about the insults received by the Japanese wife of Blackmage, to make derogatory comments to those victims of those racial slurs...
Nough said...
 
dreams said:
And worst, like MossBoss in his previous comments about the insults received by the Japanese wife of Blackmage, to make derogatory comments to those victims of those racial slurs...
Nough said...
Click to expand...

Please back this up or delete it.
 
dreams said:
I am amazed by the amount of press quotes you use in your posts... Just thought you lectured us recently that one should not believe in what the press says.. I must have missed something, stupid as I am.....

.
Click to expand...

I just mentioned that stats can be manipulated by the press. I usually use direct quotes from important players in the debate or solid economic data.
 
@Curacao mention of ftse 250 bad performance is very appropriate.
Ftse 100 has many of companies reporting their income in USD, including oil / gas and mining companies. Their good performances in GBP are hiding the counter performance of local businesses.
The fact that ftse250 is down around 5%, when ftse100 is up, is emphasizing how bad is the performance of these local companies as I would say 70% of the capitalization of the ftse250 is the ftse100.

Another point to mention (as it is true it's not all about economics) is that UK is losing a lot of political power by leaving EU. US just lost its best way to influence European affairs add its closest ally won't have any voting right at the commission.

Also after leaving EC, UK will have to find a deal with the EC to access the single market. It could end up at best to basically applying European rules without voting right, which is the current situation with Iceland and Norway... :eek:
Basically, it would mean almost the same situation as before but after losing its voice in the process.

And the Turkey thing is a joke. Nobody believes it. Even Johnson stopped using it.
To become an EC member, a country need to be accepted by every single member of the community, i.e they all have a veto right... And believe me, there will be many vetos despite the pressure of the US (and formerly UK) to push for the adhesion of this close (ambiguous) NATO ally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dreams
I'm happy for brexit, I consider any step to move power closer to individual favorable.
Bringing it down from unelected bureaucrates to country level stupid politician is a step in the right direction.

The more states are in competition with each other, the broader the opportunities for people to vote with their feet. A state is a commodity which work for people who lives in their territory, we need more competition.

PS: That and the fact that I got shit lots of money thanks to it :p
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cabbie and MossBoss
hkAlone said:
@Curacao mention of ftse 250 bad performance is very appropriate.
Ftse 100 has many of companies reporting their income in USD, including oil / gas and mining companies. Their good performances in GBP are hiding the counter performance of local businesses.
The fact that ftse250 is down around 5%, when ftse100 is up, is emphasizing how bad is the performance of these local companies as I would say 70% of the capitalization of the ftse250 is the ftse100.

Another point to mention (as it is true it's not all about economics) is that UK is losing a lot of political power by leaving EU. US just lost its best way to influence European affairs add its closest ally won't have any voting right at the commission.

Also after leaving EC, UK will have to find a deal with the EC to access the single market. It could end up at best to basically applying European rules without voting right, which is the current situation with Iceland and Norway... :eek:
Basically, it would mean almost the same situation as before but after losing its voice in the process.

And the Turkey thing is a joke. Nobody believes it. Even Johnson stopped using it.
To become an EC member, a country need to be accepted by every single member of the community, i.e they all have a veto right... And believe me, there will be many vetos despite the pressure of the US (and formerly UK) to push for the adhesion of this close (ambiguous) NATO ally.
Click to expand...

A 5% fall in the FTSE 250 is much lower than predicted by the 'experts'. The FTSE 250 is overweight in home builders and real estate related stocks - the sectors experiencing the biggest falls in price so its not surprising it underperformed.

Actually house prices are at historical highs in relation to salaries so a recession is overdue. A bubble has been created where some people have the illusion of being rich because they live in a million pound home. (Although their adult kids can't afford to move out of the family home as house prices are too expensive). Is not uncommon for families with two income earners in their 30's to be unable to afford to get on the property ladder (particularly in London).

Brexit will lead to a lower demand on the housing stock as fewer immigrants arrive, this will be beneficial to those Brits wanting to get on the housing ladder.

As previously mentioned somewhere it is more in the EU's interest to do a trade deal than the UK's because of the trade deficit. Also other regions are warm to doing trade deals with the UK. It is still the 5th biggest economy in the world.
 
john.smith said:
I'm happy for brexit, I consider any step to move power closer to individual favorable.
Bringing it down from unelected bureaucrates to country level stupid politician is a step in the right direction.
Click to expand...

This is exactly right. It seems that people who were born in countries without a democratic history don't understand that. Do they realize how many millions of European people died fighting for democracy yet they want to be controlled by a corrupt unelected officials?
 
john.smith said:
I also want to add that the media wants to brainwash people into thinking only racist and old people voted for it.
The reality is that people just reject brussel unelected bureaucrates, and burdensome bureaucracy, they are fed up with bullshits. It has nothing to do with immigration.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25...ailure-of-western-establishment-institutions/
Click to expand...

Another good point. A classic example being when Gordon Brown called the elderly Labour supporting lady a 'bigot' when she raised the issue of immigration. Her family had supported Labour since the 1920's yet this is how she was viewed by the 'elite'. She voted Brexit by the way.
 
john.smith said:
I also want to add that the media wants to brainwash people into thinking only racist and old people voted for it.
The reality is that people just reject brussel unelected bureaucrates, and burdensome bureaucracy, they are fed up with bullshits. It has nothing to do with immigration.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25...ailure-of-western-establishment-institutions/
Click to expand...
Very good article indeed.
I am quoting:
The Los Angeles Times’s Vincent Bevins, in an outstanding and concise analysis, wrote that “both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for 30 years”;
I cannot agree more.
People are pissed off by the lack of empathy of their elite. Their choices are just terribly wrong and they will be the first one hurt.
 
hkAlone said:
Very good article indeed.
I am quoting:
The Los Angeles Times’s Vincent Bevins, in an outstanding and concise analysis, wrote that “both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for 30 years”;
I cannot agree more.
People are pissed off by the lack of empathy of their elite. Their choices are just terribly wrong and they will be the first one hurt.
Click to expand...

I would say that there wasn't a choice for the 52 percent. To continue with the 'European project' would eventually mean they wouldn't have a country left.
 
Just a word about "democracy".
Peple in the UK claim that they do not want to be ruled by "unelected" people in Brussels.
They have a point, although the European parliament is an elected body, which has ultimately the last word to approve , or not, the European commission
However, they don't have a problem that in their own country, laws passed by an elected body (The Parliament) can be ( and have recently been ) blocked by an unelected body.. (The House of Lords..)
As the saying goes, just clean your own house before judging others...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Black Mage and Curacao
dreams said:
However, they don't have a problem that in their own country, laws passed by an elected body (The Parliament) can be ( and have recently been ) blocked by an unelected body.. (The House of Lords..)
As the saying goes, just clean your own house before judging others...
Click to expand...

Ultimately the House of Lords can't stop legislation but it does slow it down. I do agree with you that the House of Lords needs to be reformed and to be replaced by something more democratic.

Whatever the faults of the current system in the UK it is still much more accountable than the clowns running the show in Brussels.

Also I'd rather be controlled by British politicians and Lords than a bunch of random freeloaders from Europe.
 
I take another example, in France there is Marie Lepen which is viewed and depicted by the media as back dated racist nationalist.
But, if I were french, I would still vote for her as she would be the only one standing against Europe. Not because I like her, not because I don't like Arabs and immigration.

I would consider it better for my freedom to have a stupid statist at the head of my country which have almost no power worldwide, than a big one which can get my ass by lifting the small finger anywhere in the world just because I have the nationality. (as the USA, americans I'm sorry for you)
 
MossBoss said:
To continue with the 'European project' would eventually mean they wouldn't have a country left.
Click to expand...

And why would that be a problem? Countries need citizens to survive, but the citizens do not need a country.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Curacao, Black Mage and dreams
MossBoss said:
Also I'd rather be controlled by British politicians and Lords than a bunch of random freeloaders from Europe.
Click to expand...

Very honestly, when you watch Boris Johnson disappearing like a ghost the morning after, Gove betraying him in a way more sinister than "house of Cards" could ever imagined, the Labour party leadership tearing themselves apart... You really want to be "controlled" by those "British politicians"? Not me, sorry.
I am sure you will agree with me on this one!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AliceInWonderland, Curacao and Black Mage
dreams said:
You really want to be "controlled" by those "British politicians"? Not me, sorry.
I am sure you will agree with me on this one!!!
Click to expand...

If any Europeans don't want to be ruled by British politicians they should leave the country pronto. Ungrateful guests are never missed by their hosts.
 
dreams said:
So true!
I always considered myself as a citizen of the world, and not from a petty small or (not so small) country....
Click to expand...

Good. You will soon get tens of millions more citizens from the Middle East and North Africa in your Euroland. Just remember to tell your wife to respect their cultures and customs towards women.
 
Today's news of the European Human Right's Law in action. I guess he will end up on mainland Europe after he is released from prison.

Convicted Somalian rapist overturned deportation order after lawyer argued he 'did not know it was unacceptable behaviour' in Britain - then raped two more vulnerable women
  • Dahir Ibrahim overturned deportation order after 10-year sentence for rape
  • The 31-year-old Somalian then went on to rape two more women in Britain
  • Ibrahim threatened one with a Stanley knife and the other with screwdriver
 
dreams said:
Very honestly, when you watch Boris Johnson disappearing like a ghost the morning after, Gove betraying him in a way more sinister than "house of Cards" could ever imagined, the Labour party leadership tearing themselves apart... You really want to be "controlled" by those "British politicians"? Not me, sorry.
I am sure you will agree with me on this one!!!
Click to expand...
European politicians are the same, except with farther reaching power.
European citizen can opt out european politician by coming to britain and vice versa. This keep their power in check and will help keeping taxation at an acceptable level.
 
Wow didn't take this thread long to go full racist. If I want to read about foreign rapists and the threat they pose to humanity/civilization/the British empire/whatever, I can read the daily mail or any one of countless race hate sites. I would have hoped for more from posters on here.

That's me out of this thread. (threxit?)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DocMcStuffins, AliceInWonderland, Black Mage and 1 other person
Left wing default mode: losing an argument play the racist card.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.