Confessions of a Tokyo Plate-Spinner

[Combat]

In my experience JP girls are absolute savages when it comes to ghosting. You should basically assume that you can get ghosted or blocked at anytime no matter many times you've met or how close you feel you are. Agree that often it has nothing to do with you personally, young girls often live their lives in states of constant utter chaos and so this stuff is impossible to predict and useless to ruminate on.

 

[hamsap]

Yeah, people in Japan are just insanely busy. Especially if they are in the work force.

 

[Murakumo]

Getting ghosted after the first date is discouraging but very common and never fully goes away.

Whether or not you are expected to make a move on the first date very much depends on the girl. Also on other thing such as how you met. App? I would wait until second in most cases. Approach? Probably more expectation from girl and likelihood of success. No hard and fast rules in my XP.

Only other tips I can offer are make sure to not spend too much time, money or effort and try to "dig deeper", as Sinapse puts it, and get to something emotional or insightful in your conversation to build a genuine connection. Save some fun stories, things about yourself for round 2+.

Don't beat yourself up. I've had dates I thought went like a dream only to be ghosted after. Some girls are just good actors and will make you think it is going well even though their attraction is weak. Easy to fall for if your attraction is high.

Girls I go on dates with are a mix of apps and social circle. I'd like to start trying cold approach at some point this year, especially because I get a lot of flakes and end up with free evenings all of a sudden, so cold approaching would be a good way to spend that dead time.

Girls from apps I can sort of understand the blocking if you're not what they expected, but someone you know from a social circle blocking is so overkill. Like, we have friends in common and are going to still see each other from time to time, just say you're not interested or the classic LJBF and move on gracefully.

Fwiw, most of my dates are college girls so I also don't really buy that they're truly ''busy''. Maybe I'm wrong but whenever I hear the ''busy'' thing I assume the girl is rejecting me gracefully.

Also, I'm not sure if that's really the problem but I tend to play things quite slow and safe, and that still results in a high % of ghosting/blocking, so 95% of the time the second date never happens. So thats why I wonder if it wouldn't just be better to be direct on the first date, might as well do that if you can't even count on second dates happening.

 

[Combat]

Also, I'm not sure if that's really the problem but I tend to play things quite slow and safe, and that still results in a high % of ghosting/blocking, so 95% of the time the second date never happens. So thats why I wonder if it wouldn't just be better to be direct on the first date, might as well do that if you can't even count on second dates happening.

That's the nanpa philosophy: the chance of seeing the girl again is almost always less than 50% so you should always shoot your shot on first meet. I know some guys who are wildly successful with this strategy but I tried it for a good while and I felt that it often led to me burning bridges with girls who I liked and could have seen again. So your mileage may vary.

 

[Shfhntr]

No worries re: the questions. That is why I've made myself available. Ask away.


There is an informal ranking, maybe I can model it as three levels: top, mid and bottom.

Tops I meet at least every two weeks and reserve weekend time for. These are serious LTRs and marriage candidates. I have to juggle special occasions with them but it mostly works. Most likely to go on trips. Messages at least once every 2 days or so. If she has a meltdown, would try to salvage the relationship.

Mids are similar to top, but less likely to marry. Perhaps very good lays. Usually somewhat LTRs. Still meet in general every fortnight or so. Less likely to have trips together. They are later in line when it comes to special occasions. Less money and time dedicated than tops. Still very much girlfriend level though. Messages at least every 4-7 days. Won't necessarily chase if she has a meltdown and walks.

Bottoms are closer to booty calls. Usually STRs. Meet once a month or so. Avoid meeting if no possibility for sex. Occasional outside dates. Do not take trips together. I am unavaiable for them during special occasions. Low message pace, can sometimes go a week without. Fit them in when I can, basically. Do not mind if they walk. Definitely don't chase. Purely at my convenience. You'd be surprised how many girls this works for.

Every few months I hop on an app or go on hunts outside and set up dates with new girls, usually on nights earlier in the week (the cheap realestate) like Monday or Tuesday. When plate capacity is full, it can make wooing a new girl hard (timing is everything) so I try to aim this for times when plates are down. These girls usually start at bottom or mid tier.

I'm required to keep my place spotless: a stray hair that doesn't belong to a girl who visits can end a relationship. I have never had an unannounced visit but I turn my doorbell off when I have company and make it clear turning up unannounced is not okay as I am generally "busy" to preclude it. When I have company, notifications are completely off on my phone, if it isn't in flight mode. Have had relationships killed because another girl suddenly LINE called me at the very time I was showing photos to a girl. One looked like a young Valeria Gorlino. I was gutted.

Also extremely careful about showing things on phone in general:

• pics with or of other girls can crop up, including nudes
• notifications, message previews, calls from other girls can show up
• she may notice you have a dating or even language exchange app installed
• she may notice another girl's name show up in your autocorrect
• once a GAME sent a notification filled with hearts. The girl saw the hearts and that was a big fight. The relationship survived but I'm still not sure she ever believed it wasn't from a girl.

If showing pics or something on phone is part of your game, make sure to sanitise things first. I just avoid.

I seldom call anyone, only when a message conversation becomes emotionally charged, as txting is just no good for fights. I take calls that come when I can and try to reply to messages within 12hrs or so.


Messaging isn't that time-consuming, I don't have big conversations usually. It's usually just pings, or answering questions, or setting up dates. It's the dates, the prep and the aftermath of them that uses time and yeah that does mean less time for me. This is one of my motivations for wanting to retire.

Protip: My phone is always on silent, or on vibrate. I keep everyone on my line list muted, except for whoever I am meeting that day or if I am sexting someone. This makes it very easy to just message when you feel like it, as you don't have a notification on your phone piquing your curiosity over what is usually a nothing. You can reply to everyone at once too, then come back a few hours and reply to those replies. Much more time and emotionally efficient.

Feel free to ask anything else.

This guy spins.

I mostly date older now, but I'll add my strategies that may be beneficial across age groups.

Residence
They never come to my place anymore - no exceptions. Had a younger one break a window trying to get in, another that refused to leave, and an older one come to my station and refuse to go home insisting on meeting (didn't know where I lived) - waited for hours. When allowed it, I had identical foldable storage boxes from Ikea for each of their shit and just swapped them out and kept the unused ones deep in a closet. They love leaving stuff at your place so I let them. They felt reassured when they came over and their box of stuff was "still" out.

Phone
Like the man said: locked, silent, vibrate or lights only when in company. Airplane mode, Wifi off also during intimate times.

Wallet
Keep this organized. Be wary of incriminating receipts that can fall out and damage you. For new plates carry exactly what you need with 5000yen extra just so she doesn't think you're a broke loser. Not double the amount or whatever. The idea is to remove any temptation for them to try to get you to pay for more than half of anything if they glance into your wallet. And they will try to glance into your wallet. Something comes up, that's what ATMs are for.

Food
New plates get cheap to reasonably priced food.
Trusted plates get food from whatever fancy pants European restaurant they saw on NHK if I honestly feel like trying it. I don't mind because I know they'll likely get dinner next time. A man can go broke eating out with multiple girls. Everyone can't eat from the same trough. I cook, so I sometimes hit the grocery with them and grab some ingredients and a bottle of wine, then cook for them at their place. It's cheaper and, if you're a good cook, is much more impressive than buying a fancy dinner.

Communication
I never give out my actual phone number. Rather, I communicate via email or apps; "My family lives far away and only calls when it's an emergency. When the phone rings it's usually bad news. I don't like phone calls.", "I need my minutes for work". Whatever it takes to not disclose it. Older, married women, especially, appreciate this as it means you also can't call them and disrupt their lives either. I have been seeing one married woman in particular for over ten years and we have only ever communicated via email and have never been to the others house. I actually switched her over to gmail as well so that the messages are even more instantaneous, and we have more options for communication within the Google suite. One plate (older but needy) has my number and I regret giving it to her; received the message "If you don't call me now it means you don't care and I have my answer." So to avoid that kind of situation completely, get them used to having their fingers do the talking. Nicely timed texts / emails eliminate the need for phone calls altogether. Control the lines of communication.

Email
I use Gmail exclusively and have many accounts. One account is used for communication with women. On the way to meeting with one just archive conversations from all the others so only hers (and spam) are visible in a quick scroll. Registering for mail from some courses is a nice touch.

Media
Upload all your sensitive media to the Google Drive associated with the account you're using for your girls. Organize them in named folders. Your phone should only contain photos of sunsets, beaches, Fujisan and ramen noodles. If you care (to), you can quickly and easily dip into Drive and download some photos of whomever you're going to meet at the time.

Geography
My general rule is "some wards away"; if you have a plate living in Kanagawa hang out with the other in east Tokyo. If you know one works in Kawasaki, spend time with the other in Kinshicho. Avoid frequenting popular places like Ueno or Yoyogi park, especially on the weekends so you don't risk a run in or sighting. Weekdays are fine for such places. For married women I meet a prefecture away from their house or husbands place of employ. (This is probably only practical in the Tokyo area). Avoid taking one to places along the another's commute. Obviously, don't carry one to a place another likes / frequents.

Hotels
Take them to the same hotels to avoid awkward moments where one sees a strange item from an unknown hotel. This has the advantage of you racking up hotel points with one girl (if the hotel has a point card) that you can use with the other.

Finances
I go Dutch from the first date. That's the rule. You don't like that? Kick rocks. Once in a while I'll throw a bone and pay for a drink at the combini. "I save money to send home to my family", "I'm paying for an online course." Any reason besides "I don't have enough money". Only the ones who I've been seeing for years get the privilege of being payed for, and that's only because they pay it back by buying me something in the future without prompting.

Farmville
That's what I call it because when you're sitting on the train juggling them on your phone it looks like you're playing one of those management games, which is not far from the truth; every now and then you check in on your "farm" and make sure everyone's happy.

 

[Ken4fb]

This guy spins.

I mostly date older now, but I'll add my strategies that may be beneficial across age groups.

Residence
They never come to my place anymore - no exceptions. Had a younger one break a window trying to get in, another that refused to leave, and an older one come to my station and refuse to go home insisting on meeting (didn't know where I lived) - waited for hours. When allowed it, I had identical foldable storage boxes from Ikea for each of their shit and just swapped them out and kept the unused ones deep in a closet. They love leaving stuff at your place so I let them. They felt reassured when they came over and their box of stuff was "still" out.

Phone
Like the man said: locked, silent, vibrate or lights only when in company. Airplane mode, Wifi off also during intimate times.

Wallet
Keep this organized. Be wary of incriminating receipts that can fall out and damage you. For new plates carry exactly what you need with 5000yen extra just so she doesn't think you're a broke loser. Not double the amount or whatever. The idea is to remove any temptation for them to try to get you to pay for more than half of anything if they glance into your wallet. And they will try to glance into your wallet. Something comes up, that's what ATMs are for.

Food
New plates get cheap to reasonably priced food.
Trusted plates get food from whatever fancy pants European restaurant they saw on NHK if I honestly feel like trying it. I don't mind because I know they'll likely get dinner next time. A man can go broke eating out with multiple girls. Everyone can't eat from the same trough. I cook, so I sometimes hit the grocery with them and grab some ingredients and a bottle of wine, then cook for them at their place. It's cheaper and, if you're a good cook, is much more impressive than buying a fancy dinner.

Communication
I never give out my actual phone number. Rather, I communicate via email or apps; "My family lives far away and only calls when it's an emergency. When the phone rings it's usually bad news. I don't like phone calls.", "I need my minutes for work". Whatever it takes to not disclose it. Older, married women, especially, appreciate this as it means you also can't call them and disrupt their lives either. I have been seeing one married woman in particular for over ten years and we have only ever communicated via email and have never been to the others house. I actually switched her over to gmail as well so that the messages are even more instantaneous, and we have more options for communication within the Google suite. One plate (older but needy) has my number and I regret giving it to her; received the message "If you don't call me now it means you don't care and I have my answer." So to avoid that kind of situation completely, get them used to having their fingers do the talking. Nicely timed texts / emails eliminate the need for phone calls altogether. Control the lines of communication.

Email
I use Gmail exclusively and have many accounts. One account is used for communication with women. On the way to meeting with one just archive conversations from all the others so only hers (and spam) are visible in a quick scroll. Registering for mail from some courses is a nice touch.

Media
Upload all your sensitive media to the Google Drive associated with the account you're using for your girls. Organize them in named folders. Your phone should only contain photos of sunsets, beaches, Fujisan and ramen noodles. If you care (to), you can quickly and easily dip into Drive and download some photos of whomever you're going to meet at the time.

Geography
My general rule is "some wards away"; if you have a plate living in Kanagawa hang out with the other in east Tokyo. If you know one works in Kawasaki, spend time with the other in Kinshicho. Avoid frequenting popular places like Ueno or Yoyogi park, especially on the weekends so you don't risk a run in or sighting. Weekdays are fine for such places. For married women I meet a prefecture away from their house or husbands place of employ. (This is probably only practical in the Tokyo area). Avoid taking one to places along the another's commute. Obviously, don't carry one to a place another likes / frequents.

Hotels
Take them to the same hotels to avoid awkward moments where one sees a strange item from an unknown hotel. This has the advantage of you racking up hotel points with one girl (if the hotel has a point card) that you can use with the other.

Finances
I go Dutch from the first date. That's the rule. You don't like that? Kick rocks. Once in a while I'll throw a bone and pay for a drink at the combini. "I save money to send home to my family", "I'm paying for an online course." Any reason besides "I don't have enough money". Only the ones who I've been seeing for years get the privilege of being payed for, and that's only because they pay it back by buying me something in the future without prompting.

Farmville
That's what I call it because when you're sitting on the train juggling them on your phone it looks like you're playing one of those management games, which is not far from the truth; every now and then you check in on your "farm" and make sure everyone's happy.

Thank you for sharing. Lots of interesting points. I'm impressed that you meet one of the ladies for more than 10 years.
Also, this goes to show that free isn't really free.

 

[Maxblack]

Also, this oes to show that free isn't really free.

Exactly this. I commend this guy for having the interest, time, and energy to pursue. And clearly he gets more out of it than just sex; no one goes through this much effort JUST to get laid.

I on the other hand am old, fat, ugly, small-of-dick and weak-of-game. I have WAY more money than patience so I can’t bother with all this nonsense and just pay Kaoru to stick my toe in her hooty box every now and then. Win-win!

 

[requiemmorrow]

Exactly this. I commend this guy for having the interest, time, and energy to pursue. And clearly he gets more out of it than just sex; no one goes through this much effort JUST to get laid.

I on the other hand am old, fat, ugly, small-of-dick and weak-of-game. I have WAY more money than patience so I can’t bother with all this nonsense and just pay Kaoru to stick my toe in her hooty box every now and then. Win-win!

I am not old but certainly fat, probably the ugliest, and unfortunately thick-of-dick yet okay-at game cause of my conversational skills. I'd still be paying Kaoru for her hooty box trick versus studying and working on myself copious hours trying to win this sort of "game."
It's not just where you are in life, but what matters more to you...and getting laid is plenty enough for me.

 

[Danbo]

I think you also need a certain personality for this....before my P4P excesses I also dated a lot more and never have been this hardcore calculative.

Sure, often enough you notice that a certain girl will probably not work out....but this "only keep 5000 in your wallet mentality" kinda annoys me.
Fuck it, I want to have a good time and go to fancy restaurants I have never been before. Have I been very sucessfull at how I played it?.....fuck no...but I had a good time not worrying too much 😅

 

[MikeH]

working on myself copious hours trying to win this sort of "game."
It's not just where you are in life, but what matters more to you...and getting laid is plenty enough for me.

I understand where you guys are coming from but I think you got it a bit wrong. I would guess nobody does too many things they don't like just to get laid, but you actually need to enjoy the interaction and all other stuff related to the hunt to continue that long.

As sometimes the hunt really is better than the catch. I still remember finally getting the pretty girl to a taxi, sitting down next to her and thinking "oh no, now I actually have to fuck her too" as the adrenaline from the hunt started to wear off immediately when the catch was in the bag.

It's still fun, in moderation, but as it's now much more difficult after 30 years and kilograms so I normally just buy my fish from the supermarket. That way it is also more fresh.

 

[thegreek]

I have WAY more money than patience so I can’t bother with all this nonsense and just pay Kaoru to stick my toe in her hooty box every now and then. Win-win!

Valid.

but this "only keep 5000 in your wallet mentality" kinda annoys me.
Fuck it, I want to have a good time and go to fancy restaurants I have never been before.

Yes this is why I am less spergy about my rules and everything I say should be considered best practices that I myself regularly fail to follow. Fun important.

As sometimes the hunt really is better than the catch. I still remember finally getting the pretty girl to a taxi, sitting down next to her and thinking "oh no, now I actually have to fuck her too" as the adrenaline from the hunt started to wear off immediately when the catch was in the bag.

Many such cases. It becomes a game played for the sake of it if not careful lol

 

[Ken4fb]

I understand where you guys are coming from but I think you got it a bit wrong. I would guess nobody does too many things they don't like just to get laid, but you actually need to enjoy the interaction and all other stuff related to the hunt to continue that long.

As sometimes the hunt really is better than the catch. I still remember finally getting the pretty girl to a taxi, sitting down next to her and thinking "oh no, now I actually have to fuck her too" as the adrenaline from the hunt started to wear off immediately when the catch was in the bag.

It's still fun, in moderation, but as it's now much more difficult after 30 years and kilograms so I normally just buy my fish from the supermarket. That way it is also more fresh.

Catch and release?

 

[MikeH]

Catch and release?

That is just rude dude. You need to be a polite gentleman and come at least once. That is just common courtesy. This also applies to p4p, everything else is cheating.

 

[Ken4fb]

Well, you know "release" has quite a number of meaning

 

[thegreek]

Well, you know "release" has quite a number of meaning

😐

 

[porterhouse]

Fascination thread, thanks.

My assumption from all the opsec you guys are taking around phones/photos/messages etc is that every girl thinks you are monogomous with them? How is that possible with the ones you are seeing only every once in a whiel? Or are you just trying to avoid drama?

I date ~4 SB at the same time and will be very direct about seeing other people. I’ll also test their jealousy on a first date (say with a story & pics of a trip I took with some girl) to see if they can handle this - basically filter out drama queens.

 

[MrDuBois]

I date ~4 SB at the same time and will be very direct about seeing other people

Do you have space for one more? I won't provide sexual services, but surely having a guy will provide extra spice to your jealousy test?!

 

[porterhouse]

Do you have space for one more? I won't provide sexual services, but surely having a guy will provide extra spice to your jealousy test?!

Haha, sorry. But I sorta want to try mentioning it just for the shits and giggles…

 

[thegreek]

Fascination thread, thanks.

My assumption from all the opsec you guys are taking around phones/photos/messages etc is that every girl thinks you are monogomous with them? How is that possible with the ones you are seeing only every once in a whiel? Or are you just trying to avoid drama?

I date ~4 SB at the same time and will be very direct about seeing other people. I’ll also test their jealousy on a first date (say with a story & pics of a trip I took with some girl) to see if they can handle this - basically filter out drama queens.

The girls do not know of eachother.

Important to filter out jealous types in any case.

Being up front may relieve you of guilt, but will likely filter for more promiscuous girls and can introduce more negative feelings and situations than necessary. I'm not sure how you would go from that to a closed marriage later either.

It is a position of responsibility though and when the subject is broached I make it clear to mid-tier and below that marriage will not be a happening thing, then leave the judgment to them. This is also why I generally do not chase any girls on those tiers who leave me: I let the relationship die and them go so they can move on.

 

[porterhouse]

The girls do not know of eachother.

Important to filter out jealous types in any case.

Being up front may relieve you of guilt, but will likely filter for more promiscuous girls and can introduce more negative feelings and situations than necessary. I'm not sure how you would go from that to a closed marriage later either.

It is a position of responsibility though and when the subject is broached I make it clear to mid-tier and below that marriage will not be a happening thing, then leave the judgment to them. This is also why I generally do not chase any girls on those tiers who leave me: I let the relationship die and them go so they can move on.

Gotcha.

Well, I’m in the divorced and never-again camp, so marriage is not in our futures (despite a couple of them wanting to!).

I don't think most of my SBs have been very promiscuous, though a few have. There’s probably a few who have some jealousy issues still and we’ve settled into DADT. But since they are sugar arrangements (with ~30yr age-gaps), being up front about expectations ($, non-monogomy, frequency, communication, feelings, etc) is perhaps much easier than in more normal dating situations?

 

[thegreek]

Gotcha.

Well, I’m in the divorced and never-again camp, so marriage is not in our futures (despite a couple of them wanting to!).

I don't think most of my SBs have been very promiscuous, though a few have. There’s probably a few who have some jealousy issues still and we’ve settled into DADT. But since they are sugar arrangements (with ~30yr age-gaps), being up front about expectations ($, non-monogomy, frequency, communication, feelings, etc) is perhaps much easier than in more normal dating situations?

Apologies, only just figured out what SB stood for with this extra context.

Have no XP in that area, but yes sounds like rules would change somewhat.

 

[rafaelx12]

Some girls are just good actors and will make you think it is going well even though their attraction is weak. Easy to fall for if your attraction is high

Oh the old "Half hearted kindness" gimmick. Many poor chaps who come on too strong on the first few dates fall for that one. They just feel sorry for you so throw you a bone. Some guys seem to think they are the player but in fact are getting played themselves. Japnze women can be brutal so stay frosty roughnecks

 

[Shfhntr]

Valid.


Yes this is why I am less spergy about my rules and everything I say should be considered best practices that I myself regularly fail to follow. Fun important.


Many such cases. It becomes a game played for the sake of it if not careful lol

Was considering a disclaimer: "These rules may come off as overly strict and are not for everyone.."

It's interesting reading the different opinions and responses.

This is the SOP for females I have just met, first few dates, etc. It's a vetting process. Less "spergy" and more "pre-emptive".

Depends on each man's idea of "fun". Spending money on dating isn't "fun" for me anymore. Snowboarding / skiing and getting a cabin with my "ride or dies" twice more this season is more my speed.

Opportunity cost and all that.

 

[Frenchy]

Sorry dumb non-native here but first time I see “plate” to refer to ladies. Is that millennial/ Gen Z talk?

 

[CharlieSimms]

Sorry dumb non-native here but first time I see “plate” to refer to ladies. Is that millennial/ Gen Z talk?

Plate does not refer to a lady. Though “dish” was used back in the 1950s maybe. Spinning plates refers to delicately keeping a number of ladies at once without dropping (fucking up) just like the activity of well… spinning plates.