Happening Bar Not Happening

[John Chavers]

Customers have been arrested at soaplands, fashion health clubs, and escort services

Where?

 

[Sudsy]

I noticed something lovely.... if you click a poster's username, a little window pops up which contains the option to ignore someone. Works a treat.

 

[Solong]

Where?

http://newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/article/105798.php

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/...-for-sex-with-3-school-girls-in-chiba-hotel/

http://japandailypress.com/two-arre...app-line-to-recruit-teen-prostitutes-0329922/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/0...en-prostitution-in-akihabara-before-olympics/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/...-illegal-pachinko-parlor-ikebukuro-arrest-3/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/06/13/tokyo-cops-raid-illegal-pachinko-parlor-in-ueno-arrest-3/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/02/12/tokyo-cops-bust-illegal-pachinko-parlor-in-ueno-arrest-11/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/0...bargain-sex-chain-for-prostitution-arrest-21/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/01/09/yomiuri-journalist-busted-for-picking-up-teen-/

 

[Solong]

When Japanese police do a raid on an establishment, they may elect to arrest customers that are present. Be it a delivery health, soapland, escort service, pachinko parlor, disco, etc... The type of place doesn't matter. When they raid, if customers are present, they can decide to arrest or not.

And for prostitution, they can bring a case against the owner or establishment from a distance. They don't need to catch them "red handed", as they may already have enough evidence to charge them. Tax evasion, underage girls, etc... The arrest warrant will have their names on it, so the police may just go to collect them. The police don't have to go to their business, but can go directly to their home.

With a happening bar, it's much more difficult. The bar is LEGAL. You can legally be in a happening bar. So, the police have try to catch people "red handed and in the act", in an attempt to bring a case against the happening bar owner. Basically, harassing consenting adults behind locked doors.

The problem for police is swinging is a lifestyle, not a crime. There is a fundamental difference in the mindset of many happening bar owners, who are swingers and swingers in general, where they feel what they are doing is a fundamental human right and bothering consenting adults is sexual oppression. They will continue to open happening bars or arrange swinger parties no matter what, because it's their lifestyle and beliefs. Talk to some of the happening bar owners, as I have. Swingers and their belief in freedom of sexual expression can NEVER be stopped.

 

[John Chavers]

long list of non-sequitur examples

[1] Kiddie diddler
[2] Kiddie diddler
[3] Kiddie diddler pimp
[4] Kiddie diddler
[5] Illegal gambling
[6] Banned gambling machines
[7] Banned gambling machines
[8] FS for sale, yet no customers arrested
[9] Kiddie diddler

Again, I ask where are you seeing customers being arrested at pachislot, soaplands, and delivery health?

Talk to some of the happening bar owners, as I have. Swingers and their belief in freedom of sexual expression can NEVER be stopped.

Difficult to express that sexual freedom from Fuchu prison.

 

[Solong]

[1] Kiddie diddler
[2] Kiddie diddler
[3] Kiddie diddler pimp
[4] Kiddie diddler
[5] Illegal gambling
[6] Banned gambling machines
[7] Banned gambling machines
[8] FS for sale, yet no customers arrested
[9] Kiddie diddler

Again, I ask where are you seeing customers being arrested at pachislot, soaplands, and delivery health?


Difficult to express that sexual freedom from Fuchu prison.

View attachment 468

You are not slick. The customers were ARRESTED. Since you are into hysterics, any soapland, escort services, or delivery health can be hiring underage prostitutes. Customers who were arrested, have said they didn't know, but were arrested anyway. To avoid any possibility, you should be warning to stay away from any prostitution, as could lead to arrest for underage prostitution and jail.

Paying women for sex that you don't know, is arguably in violation of Japan's prostitution law and ILLEGAL. And you will be in jail a lot LONGER for underage prostitution or violating the Japanese laws against prostitution than for indecent exposure.

In various cases, the police tracked down the customers. They didn't have to catch them red-handed. They had the underage girls confess or they monitored the customers and then napped them. The police can also make a prostitute confess on a customer. No need to arrest you at the establishment, they can go straight to your house.

Furthermore, you are trying to be even slicker, by ignoring fundamental differences between happening bars and straight up prostitution rings. Happening bars are LEGAL, prostitution (under set parameters) is ILLEGAL. The police must raid the happening bar and catch people in the act of public indecency, which is a trivial offense, and that's hard to do. And even if so, happening bar owners have a legal basis under Japanese law to fight the charges. Just as soaplands are quasi-allowed to have sex in the establishment, happening bars can also argue that people having sex know each other and have an relationship. Furthermore, there is no money being exchanged and the establishment is not open to the general public. Happening bars are therefore under a gray area. It's a matter of if police and local politicians choose to cause them trouble or there is some other activity going on in the bar. This gray area is why so MANY happening bars exist and have been running for YEARS.

With prostitution rings, they DON'T have to catch them red-handed. The police and courts can define the business as illegal from a distance, then issues warrants with people's names on it. That's the ONLY reason why they don't usually arrest customers of prostitutes. Furthermore, individual arrests for engaging in prostitution doesn't make the news, but I can assure you it happens. And if they RAID a place and customers are there and especially if caught in the act, they will arrest or question them.

At happening bars, this CAN'T be done. People entering and what will happen is RANDOM. Same goes for a Date/Deai Cafe, randomness means they can't ever be certain what's going on. They must then launch a generalized raid and hope they get lucky. With a prostitution ring or pimps, they don't need luck, they go straight up arrest them and even at their house.

 

[John Chavers]

Happening bars are LEGAL, prostitution (under set parameters) is ILLEGAL.

Then why is Dark Night shutdown if it's LEGAL?

It's a matter of if police and local politicians choose to cause them trouble or there is some other activity going on in the bar.

Thank you. I'm glad we found a point of agreement.

I strongly recommend avoiding Tokyo HB's for the next few months until "police and local politicians" in Tokyo ease off on their current crime prevention push against public indecency.

 

[Solong]

Then why is Dark Night shutdown if it's LEGAL?

This was answered. Is Dark Night just 1 or ALL Happening Bars? Are you OK? I'm not understanding why you can't understand the difference.

The entire situation nor why the police chose that SPECIFIC HB was not released to the public.

Oh, and clearly you should stop going to "Deliver Health"

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/0...bargain-sex-chain-for-prostitution-arrest-21/

Clearly prostitution is ILLEGAL, the cops keep arresting them.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/1...4-hookers-november-sweep-ikebukuro-kabukicho/

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2012/0...own-high-end-shibuya--clubs-nab-15-employees/

Women should stop doing prostitution, as it's not paying enough.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/1...les-can-no-longer-fall-back-on-the-sex-trade/

Clearly you shouldn't trust giving information to escort services, as can end up in the hands of the police.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/0...t-for-high-end--club-could-prove-problematic/

Talking to women on the street might get you arrested too

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2012/07/25/nampa-av-porn-productions-falling-on-hard-times/

I strongly recommend avoiding Tokyo HB's for the next few months until "police and local politicians" in Tokyo ease off on their current crime prevention push against public indecency.

Considering that the police are perpetually cracking down on prostitution EVERYWHERE and it's ILLEGAL in Japan, maybe those worried should avoid it all together. Suggest avoiding pachinko, constant raids, and dance clubs too. Dancing is still illegal in Japan after 12AM.

Advise working like a robot, do unpaid overtime, and go rush straight home in fear and panic. Welcome to no fun and sexually repressed Japan. Home of the lowest sexual frequency of any industrialized country. Don't like it? You may want to commit suicide by jumping in front of a train. Oh, Japan has among the highest suicide rate.

I mean, if we are going to panic, why stop at a specific type of place and not every kind of place. So, hide under the covers in fear until it's your time to die.

 

[John Chavers]

This was answered. Is Dark Night just 1 or ALL Happening Bars?

Let's look at that list provided by @Ladylisa.

I hope no sex tourists end up in lockup due to your "advice".

 

[Hap Smith]

Wow, I have started a monstor here. Not sure if the above gets my girl any closer to the goal of moving beyond one-on-one.

Looks like the options are CL or AFF as Solong kindly suggested. Has anyone had any experience with any Japanese language sites?

 

[Solong]

Let's look at that list provided by @Ladylisa.

I hope no sex tourists end up in lockup due to your "advice".

Here is the thing though about your unexplained obsession with only happening bars, and as if prostitution in Japan was problem free...

I talked to the owner of Le Grand Bleu, his wife, and people that were there.

1) Owner went an opened up another club.

He is a freedom of sexual expression swinger that simply can't be stopped. Absolutely believes swinging is a basic human rights issue.

His problems were more technical, as in violation of building codes and rumor was he was being harrassed for more *cough* cash to make the issues go away.

Hmmm... Why they let the happening bar owner go so easily??? If he had been running a prostitution ring and or pimping prostitutes, that would NOT be the case.

2) Foreigners arrested, STAYED In Japan.

Very MINOR issue. The police questioned them about possible PROSTITUTION and released them. Notice that the police were concerned about prostitutes possibly working there.

In fact, think they were released that SAME day. Oppssss, there goes your theory on 3 days.

In fact 2 of those arrested went back to swinger clubs.

3) Absolutely, positively, did NOT deter swingers.

As told you, many swingers have a different mindset. It's a lifestyle, they believe in freedom, many are hard-core, and believe the police absolutely and fundamentally are wrong for harassing them.

Where prostitution is fundamentally about MONEY, swingers are fundamentally about freedom of sexual expression.

4) Prostitution is ILLEGAL And Are Raided 100X more.

No matter how much you attempt to focus on happening bars, there is absolutely no comparison to how much police raid prostitution rings. It's 100 and maybe 1000 to 1, if not more than that if you add up all police raids nation wide.

And how old is that prostitute or is she an illegal sex slave?

See, we are talking fundamental differences in morality and ethics.

 

[Solong]

Wow, I have started a monstor here. Not sure if the above gets my girl any closer to the goal of moving beyond one-on-one.

Looks like the options are CL or AFF as Solong kindly suggested. Has anyone had any experience with any Japanese language sites?

You didn't, and asked an honest question.
Never had the need to go beyond CL and AFF, so not familiar with Japanese only sites. And Japanese language sites, for Japanese swingers, would include happening bar websites. The happening bar websites often have a Japanese BBS. In addition to CL and AFF, there are some Japan based swingers up on Fetlife (https://fetlife.com).

Fetlife does deviate more strongly into the S&M world, but there are swingers doing private get togethers. Maybe put a classified ad up there too.

Do know many mixed race international couples and Japanese couples are on CL and AFF, so in regards to that, you should be able to find more than just other foreign couples.

 

[John Chavers]

You don't have to shutter your LEGAL shop over building code violations, and "arrest" is not the same as "brought in for voluntary questioning".

I'll keep this thread bookmarked just in case for the next HB/orgy party bust in the coming weeks.

 

[Tokyo1447]

 

[Solong]

You don't have to shutter your LEGAL shop over building code violations, and "arrest" is not the same as "brought in for voluntary questioning".
View attachment 469

I'll keep this thread bookmarked just in case for the next HB/orgy party bust in the coming weeks.

Dude, keep a bookmark of all the prostitution raids in between. Let's count how many prostitution raids occurred. And not all the DAILY prostitution busts are even reported because they happen so FREQUENTLY.

Don't know why you have an obsession on non-paying consenting adult sex behind locked doors. Maybe you should focus your crusade on the never ending avalanche of illegal underage TEENAGE prostitution.

 

[John Chavers]

Looking forward to hearing how well Debito's advice works out for you.

 

[Solong]

You don't have to shutter your LEGAL shop over building code violations, and "arrest" is not the same as "brought in for voluntary questioning".
View attachment 469

I'll keep this thread bookmarked just in case for the next HB/orgy party bust in the coming weeks.

Absolutely you don't know what you are talking about. Any and every kind of business can be shut down for building and fire code violations. I suggest you research this. As a matter of fact, not just Japan, but in many countries this is the case. Any way, same HB owner OPENED another club within months.

Now we are going to play this "voluntary questioning" versus arrest game. Try not coming with the Japanese police. Think you will realize it's not voluntary.

As mentioned, the Japanese police have broad powers to do what they want, and what they believe is for the greater good. So they can decide to continually detain you or let you go. They arrested only a FEW of the MANY that were there. They then let the "arrested" HB customers for "indecent exposure" GO that SAME day.

 

[Solong]

Looking forward to hearing how well Debito's advice works out for you.

So you are here to brag about illegally using the services of prostitutes and to tell foreign tourists the virtues of illegal prostitution in Japan over free sexual expression among adults.

And as if the Japanese police would ignore: underage girl prostitutes, pimping, brothels for prostitutes, tax evasion, undocumented pay, and illegal prostitution activity so as to focus solely and only on swingers. Yeah, OK.

Forget the murderers, robbers, rapists, and efficient use of tax payer money. The job of Japanese police is to chase down every sex orgy they can find.

You win. I give up. Maybe I will live in fear of swinging and give up on basic human rights as you suggest. You have showed me the light and way. To make you happy, will head out and talk to some ladies on the streets of Koganecho in Yokohama.

 

[John Chavers]

Absolutely you don't know what you are talking about. Any and every kind of business can be shut down for building and fire code violations

They are given a written warning first.

You win. I give up

I graciously accept your humble surrender.

 

[Wwanderer]

I post in this thread with trepidation as I would hate to re-ignite a discussion so lacking in respect for the other's opinions, information, experience etc. However, I have a question for you, JC...and note that it is a real *question*. Namely, what would you advise people who patronize (or would like to patronize) Tokyo HBs to do? It is pretty clear that @Solong believes one can/should simply ignore the risk of getting in trouble with the police in the present circumstances because it is so small as well as being unjustified/unreasonable, but I did not notice in the discussion what you think the appropriate/wise response to be.

-Ww

 

[John Chavers]

I think a proper grasp on the Japanese language would be enough to talk your way out of an arrest in this case. The odds of being at an HB during a bust are incredibly low, and according to @Solong they are releasing people same day. You need to know enough Japanese to request an English translator.

The main worry are for the sex tourists that aren't residents and are abysmal Japanese language speakers. They could be in for a terrible shock.

 

[Solong]

Funny thing about Koganecho and Hinodecho in Yokohama. It used to have hundreds of prostitutes, was famous, and one of the largest red light districts. The Japanese police completely WIPED them out and raided the area on a scale not known before. Arresting and kicking out hundreds of prostitutes, pimps, and customers they caught in the area. I know, seen a bit of it. Directly seen Japanese cops arrest customers of prostitutes in raids, and harass suspected customers walking in the area. Because that's how they operate, they snatch up whoever first or want to, then decide what THEY want to do. They don't just ignore customers of prostitutes.

Prostitution clearly isn't that safe and Japanese police can and do crack down on it, so not something anyone could recommend to a tourist over swinging.

The main thing though is prostitution, happening bars, and even dancing in clubs after 12am exists in technical GRAY areas. Meaning there are LOOPHOLES or issues about the INTERPRETATION of the Japanese laws that ALLOW businesses to exist.

Soaplands, and the sex that happens inside them, is often ignored because of how laws are interpreted. Happening bars are the SAME. It's a matter of IF there is a desire to crack down on them or NOT. Dance clubs in Roppongi, allowing customers to dance after 12am, fall under the same situation. It's a matter of if there is a desire to crack down on them or not, which can be a very complicated political mess in itself.

Your risk, if it's a gray area activity, can be relatively small. If you are smart about it and understanding what's up. It's up to each individual person to decide.

 

[Solong]

I post in this thread with trepidation as I would hate to re-ignite a discussion so lacking in respect for the other's opinions, information, experience etc. However, I have a question for you, JC...and note that it is a real *question*. Namely, what would you advise people who patronize (or would like to patronize) Tokyo HBs to do? It is pretty clear that @Solong believes one can/should simply ignore the risk of getting in trouble with the police in the present circumstances because it is so small as well as being unjustified/unreasonable, but I did not notice in the discussion what you think the appropriate/wise response to be.

-Ww

In regards to your question specifically, it's a matter of the person studying and understanding about what they are doing. The risk is minimized in this way.

What John Chavers alluded to, in terms of newbie tourist or experienced Japanese speaking resident, is a factor too. Do you know the area? do you know the club? What's their SPECIFIC history, not talking about OTHER places, but their history in terms of not getting raided? How long have they been operating? Do you know anybody that's ever been there?

Then you decide for yourself. We should respect people's decisions, either way. That's what they want to do.

 

[Wwanderer]

The odds of being at an HB during a bust are incredibly low

Fwiiw, I agree with this assessment, which is also @Solong's I think. I.e., all three of us agree that it is a very small risk. Imo, the chances of many other possible bad outcomes of going to an HB are much greater, for example catching some disease (not necessarily an STD) or falling on the stairs due to be drunk and distracted by lust. In other words, unless police raids become much more common than they have been to date, I would not be deterred at all personally.

The main worry are for the sex tourists that aren't residents and are abysmal Japanese language speakers.

In my experience of HBs and their patrons, this demographic is tiny to non-existent. The overwhelming majority are Japanese and nearly all the rest are foreign residents of Japan (who almost always speak at least basic Japanese). The remaining few are there as the dates of Japanese or foreign residents. I can't recall ever encountering a single exception. One reason is that most HBs would not admit any single or couple who spoke with no or almost no Japanese ability; BO is the one exception of which I am aware.

-Ww

 

[John Chavers]

In my experience of HBs and their patrons, this demographic is tiny to non-existent. One reason is that most HBs would not admit any single or couple who spoke with no or almost no Japanese ability

This should be posted at the top of this section as a sticky: there are far too many queries on TAG from sex tourists about HBs and CKs, and this may deter them.