Japan Vets: Were the Old Days Better and if so, How?

[Keihan]

I was never really a career guy, worked as an accountant + HR for 8 years until I had enough of my bosses and coincidentally Japan made working holiday visas available again earlier this year when COVID was still " a thing". So I quit my job (this happened BEFORE the visa thing - I just needed a break in general), applied for the visa, got it and have been travelling around since June, living off my savings. I never aspired to become some big boss man, head of a department or CEO. I went to work, clocked in, pretended to work for 6/8 hours I was there and then clocked out (that's before I reduced hours to 6 a day at the cost of my income because I wanted more free time). It's been mostly good here in Japan, wish I had done some stuff differently (especially regarding my Japanese skills) but mostly great. Not many people get to have a year "off", travelling for a year so I am trying to enjoy my time and be grateful for what I have. But yeah - he's right in certain points. It would take way too much effort and - more importantly - time to even realistically move to Japan. Also, I have been to Japan plenty of times and know enough about the culture to know that living here would be a vastly different experience compared to what I do now.

I'd have to actually study Japanese and get to N2/N1 levels, which would take ages. I'd also have to go to uni and get a degree. Germany's education system simultaneously blessed and cursed me. Blessed in Germany because I didn't need to go to uni to get a well paying job. Cursed because the 3 years of training + certified graduation are somehow not the same as some random bum going to college, getting a degree in Mickey Mouse and applying to be an ALT. So that'd cost me another 2-3 years at least and after all that, the 8 years of work experience I have would basically be reset to 0 anyway and the jobs I could get in Japan are the ones I certainly do not want. Fuck being an English teacher, I hate kids. Me in a class with children would end in disaster.

Reality is that I should've done this shit 10 years ago and not at 30 and I guess I am slowly coming to terms with the fact that I am not gonna have that nice 20s experience where I stay in Japan for a prolonged period of time, learn the language, play around with Japanese ladies and talk about it on TAG. It'll be me going back home in May next year, back to the boring 30-40 hour work days in a small-ass town, thinking about my poor life choices until I am 55 and get a stroke.

I would say you're doing as well as you possibly could and had the right idea. I always tell people who ask me about it, Japan is a fucking amazing vacation...but actually living there is where it gets complicated. For my part, pre-pandemic I was spending a combined length of about two months per year in Japan. I wish I had a job (or the financial resources) where I could spend, say, every other month living in Tokyo. But a month is about all I can do at my age. Perhaps I tend to live excessively while in-country but after two or three weeks, Japan starts to wear me down, physically and mentally. I know it's time to go home when I'm actually dreaming about the airport bar and flight. And that's in Tokyo, which I LIKE--I get sick and tired of Osaka within a day, sometimes hours.

But again, that's me. I'm in my 40s, I'm not looking for a partner, and if I'm being honest I'm not even that interested in sex anymore (much prefer the effortless leisure of handjobs). Nice meals, nice massages, nice hot baths, nice booze and buying myself nice shiny shit and that's heaven for me.

You sound a lot like me, at least as far a the job. I do the bare minimum, hate being there but hit all my quotas and work just hard enough to pay for nice vacations. A year off to fuck around is seriously golden and you should count yourself lucky. Now go home, figure out a way to get fabulously rich and then the next time you come back you'll have stampedes of 20yo bimbos tripping over themselves trying to squat on you.

 

[Danbo]

I was never really a career guy, worked as an accountant + HR for 8 years until I had enough of my bosses and coincidentally Japan made working holiday visas available again earlier this year when COVID was still " a thing". So I quit my job (this happened BEFORE the visa thing - I just needed a break in general), applied for the visa, got it and have been travelling around since June, living off my savings. I never aspired to become some big boss man, head of a department or CEO. I went to work, clocked in, pretended to work for 6/8 hours I was there and then clocked out (that's before I reduced hours to 6 a day at the cost of my income because I wanted more free time). It's been mostly good here in Japan, wish I had done some stuff differently (especially regarding my Japanese skills) but mostly great. Not many people get to have a year "off", travelling for a year so I am trying to enjoy my time and be grateful for what I have. But yeah - he's right in certain points. It would take way too much effort and - more importantly - time to even realistically move to Japan. Also, I have been to Japan plenty of times and know enough about the culture to know that living here would be a vastly different experience compared to what I do now.

I'd have to actually study Japanese and get to N2/N1 levels, which would take ages. I'd also have to go to uni and get a degree. Germany's education system simultaneously blessed and cursed me. Blessed in Germany because I didn't need to go to uni to get a well paying job. Cursed because the 3 years of training + certified graduation are somehow not the same as some random bum going to college, getting a degree in Mickey Mouse and applying to be an ALT. So that'd cost me another 2-3 years at least and after all that, the 8 years of work experience I have would basically be reset to 0 anyway and the jobs I could get in Japan are the ones I certainly do not want. Fuck being an English teacher, I hate kids. Me in a class with children would end in disaster.

Reality is that I should've done this shit 10 years ago and not at 30 and I guess I am slowly coming to terms with the fact that I am not gonna have that nice 20s experience where I stay in Japan for a prolonged period of time, learn the language, play around with Japanese ladies and talk about it on TAG. It'll be me going back home in May next year, back to the boring 30-40 hour work days in a small-ass town, thinking about my poor life choices until I am 55 and get a stroke.

In general I think it is unhealthy to regret what you did wrong and fantasize what could have been. That can be applied to all parts of life and is just unrealistic...and it also goes the other way round. Some very simple wrong decisions could have fucked up everything a lot more.

Being sad that you didn't spend your early twenties in Japan fucking around is also a fantasy....in reality it is not so perfect how many imagine. I also came here rather late for longer, but had a lot of younger classmates in language school who had this privilege, so I could see how it went for them. Most of them were constantly broke, so they couldn't spend a lot of money on crap....and being young and crazy about Japan lead to a lot of bad decisions on their end. Young marriages with lots of obligations, bad career choices that lead them nowhere etc.

Always better to focus on which of your decisions were the right ones. You can be proud about them and try to build upon them. If you were able to get a working holiday visa you are still young, and having a year off is a luxury of a lifetime. Be grateful about this amazing chance, enjoy every minute, plan ahead what comes next.

 

[Maxblack]

I am fat, rich, and I been here forever. So I have no idea how much better my life would be if I stayed in the country I was born but Tokyo is pretty fucked up excellent in the greater scheme of things.

 

[requiemmorrow]

I am fat, rich, and I been here forever. So I have no idea how much better my life would be if I stayed in the country I was born but Tokyo is pretty fucked up excellent in the greater scheme of things.

I am fat, not rich, and have been here less than a decade.

Discovering p4p has lead me to never want to go back to the USA. I can be a perfectly happy man fucking Japanese girls regularly for the next decade or so and recover all of that time spent indoctrinated against mongering.

 

[psd]

After 20+ years here I have no idea if I did the right thing staying. I would have made more money back home but I've got to work on fantastic leading edge tech, I've known some wonderful people, and had some great experiences; Japanese women don't seem to worry much about age, even at my age I've dated 18 year olds.

But I've gone through patches of being terribly lonely and not being able to change jobs.

 

[requiemmorrow]

But I've gone through patches of being terribly lonely and not being able to change jobs.

I will NOT believe you!!!

🎶 JAPAN IS PERFECT LALALALA 🎶

(Kidding by the way…)

 

[Frenchy]

Im curious about the home sickness thing… how can you be sure you won’t feel it again?

(And no I dont perversely intend to read you trash the good old US&A , although that can be fun too… I meant , on a more psychological level)

 

[Keihan]

In general I think it is unhealthy to regret what you did wrong and fantasize what could have been. That can be applied to all parts of life and is just unrealistic...and it also goes the other way round. Some very simple wrong decisions could have fucked up everything a lot more.

Being sad that you didn't spend your early twenties in Japan fucking around is also a fantasy....in reality it is not so perfect how many imagine. I also came here rather late for longer, but had a lot of younger classmates in language school who had this privilege, so I could see how it went for them. Most of them were constantly broke, so they couldn't spend a lot of money on crap....and being young and crazy about Japan lead to a lot of bad decisions on their end. Young marriages with lots of obligations, bad career choices that lead them nowhere etc.

Always better to focus on which of your decisions were the right ones. You can be proud about them and try to build upon them. If you were able to get a working holiday visa you are still young, and having a year off is a luxury of a lifetime. Be grateful about this amazing chance, enjoy every minute, plan ahead what comes next.

I agree with this 100%, OP. Coming here in your 20s and pissing away X number of years may be fun but certainly not the most responsible way you could've spent those years. I'm a perfect example of that. I was 22 when I arrived and planned to stay for one year, max. The plan was to come back when I was 23 or 24, go straight to the Air Force (or Army) recruiting office and get myself into OTS/OCS (officer school). Instead, I spent seven years in Japan. Now, I don't regret anything I've done in life--contemplating regrets is an exercise in futility--and I had a fan-fucking-tastic time living in Japan as a kid and will forever treasure the experience, but had I stuck with the original plan I'd most likely be an O-6 (full colonel) in some branch of the military now and one year away from retirement eligibility, which means six-figures and free health insurance for the rest of my life for doing absolutely nothing. Instead, I now have a measly 401k and, short of me figuring out a get-rich-quick scheme or waiting for my inheritance, will be working for at least another two decades.

Other friends of mine came up around the same time but rather than stay, they went home and established businesses, medical practices and other very profitable ventures. Today they live in homes I can only dream of affording, easily making in a week what I make in six months. But that's the choice I made and I'm not going to dwell on it.

Just remember, every day is another day to get rich or die trying. Or call Miran and mark another life milestone.

 

[Sudsy]

Im curious about the home sickness thing… how can you be sure you won’t feel it again?

In my experience, people who emigrate to Japan seem to almost like clockwork have intense homesickness at 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 year, 5 years, and at 9-10 years, and then seem to never get it again.

People who've lived here a while, then gone back to their home countries, then come back here again rarely experience a second round of homesickness.

 

[TAG Manager]

I'm still ready to get out of Japan. It's just not homesickness, but just a plethora of issues that I'm tired of dealing with that are specific to Japan. I love the US because it's so big and if you don't like where you live, you can always move. People that I run into that can't stand the states, usually come from poor areas or those overrun by poverty or just simple helplessness. There's still a big labor shortage in certain trades, but people are too fucking lazy to do the jobs. (Or, get a skill that is marketable for a higher salary.) I'm kinda in the boat with Mike Rowe and his approach to promoting work in the skilled trades. This is where this a shortage of up and coming craftsmen and tradespeople and a big market waiting for good money to be made. Too many young people just want a hand-out instead of getting their hands dirty. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Danbo]

In my experience, people who emigrate to Japan seem to almost like clockwork have intense homesickness at 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 year, 5 years, and at 9-10 years, and then seem to never get it again.

People who've lived here a while, then gone back to their home countries, then come back here again rarely experience a second round of homesickness.

Never understood this notion........lived in a few different places and never felt homesickness in my life. Guess it varies a lot from person to person.

 

[TAG Manager]

Absolutely agree. For those that are in that position, I truly feel for them because it's a vicious cycle. There is no one solution and my observations only come from one specific area of the country, at least from the past 5 years or so. The thing that struck me so deeply was the mass of jobs that were available. It used to be the opposite where there were a lack of jobs for too many people.

There are still people who dig their own holes in the ground... and I think sometimes there aren't many (including government) who will lend a helping hand that is actually worth something.

Japan is declining in this area. I've had more trouble getting good service on a number of occasions. The worth ethic is just a shell, found that out pretty quickly when I found out how many man hours are wasted by people just sitting in an office pretending to work. The same issues appear in Japan that do in other countries, it's just a matter of how you may be exposed to them. Construction, repair firms - some of the worst I've dealt with. They will attempt to gouge you until you bleed. Repairs? "Isn't easier to just buy a new one?" --- You'll meet more foreigners in these areas who definitely do not have a fraction of what the work ethic in Japan used to be.

There's a lot to be fixed in every single country. It's just too big of a list to compare... but in this instance, I'm just tired of being here where my voice means nothing as a foreigner. Getting discounted and excluded for not being Japanese, it takes a toll on the soul.

 

[TAG Manager]

Never understood this notion........lived in a few different places and never felt homesickness in my life. Guess it varies a lot from person to person.

I have a fairly large family, which generates most of my homesickness. Everyone is growing and getting older. I'm fairly lucky that I usually get to spend 2 months of the year in the states (at least pre-covid), so I have time to catch-up. But, more people are beginning to exceed 65-70 years old and this is a problem for me.

 

[MrDuBois]

Too many young people just want a hand-out instead of getting their hands dirty. Sorry, not sorry.

Since I am definitely on the younger-than-average side on this board, I can speak for myself and every single one of my friends who are all in their mid to late 20s or early 30s. None of them have any ambitions or want handouts. They value their time far more than money. I think there's a very big difference between generations when it comes to work "ethic" and the whole career mentality, although the latter has a lot of difference between countries as well. Americans seem to be much more career focused than my German brethren. Now, there are of course a lot of people who are like "Man, just give me the money without me doing anything" (and tbh, who wouldn't like that? Sign me the fuck up lol) but the people I know are fine with what they earn, want more time for themselves and not deal with outdated work practices and mentality.

It's essentially what made me quit my old, well paying job in the first place. I had no uni degree and made 2k a month after tax 1 year after finishing my training, was able to save more than half of that every month and could have coasted forever but the environment at work was getting ridiculous and you only get the chance to spend a year abroad so many times.

Anyway, lots of interesting and good replies here. I've made more than enough good choices to be able to afford a year here without needing to wake up and work at a konbini or McDonald's and I have already seen more in the past 6 months than I would ever be able to see through the years of 2 week vacations while working. Sometimes one specific thing happens and the brain plays tricks. It's usually dumb shit but alas, who knows how the fucking brain works?

 

[TAG Manager]

Since I am definitely on the younger-than-average side on this board, I can speak for myself and every single one of my friends who are all in their mid to late 20s or early 30s. None of them have any ambitions or want handouts. They value their time far more than money. I think there's a very big difference between generations when it comes to work "ethic" and the whole career mentality, although the latter has a lot of difference between countries as well. Americans seem to be much more career focused than my German brethren. Now, there are of course a lot of people who are like "Man, just give me the money without me doing anything" (and tbh, who wouldn't like that? Sign me the fuck up lol) but the people I know are fine with what they earn, want more time for themselves and not deal with outdated work practices and mentality.

It's unfair to put a label people from different locations; I'm just reporting what I've experienced so far and don't meant to generalize that for a blanket statement. I do get first-hand experience with new graduates and I'm overly tired of them being addicted to their phones and have trouble doing some very basic tasks. I'm fine with people asking questions, but some of what I get back from them makes me wonder what they learned in school? Task/Time management? Nope! Problem solving? Nope!

 

[just4fun]

Never understood this notion........lived in a few different places and never felt homesickness in my life. Guess it varies a lot from person to person.

I also can make home anywhere......

 

[psd]

I'm terribly homesick to the point of wanting to move back. I'm well aware that the place I left will not be the place I go back to and I will yearn for Japan the moment I leave, especially the fashion health shop I'm welcomed at. The things I loved about Tokyo all disappeared when COVID hit and I've changed. I don't care about fancy stuff, all I want now is a peaceful life in comfort.

 

[Keihan]

Never understood this notion........lived in a few different places and never felt homesickness in my life. Guess it varies a lot from person to person.

I think it basically comes down to folks who left the nest at a young age VS those who stayed home far longer than they should have. Myself, I left home at 17 to move halfway across the country, and I recall it being a gut-wrenching experience for about two or three days...until I hooked up with the right crew, learned the lay of the land at my new massive state university and then got introduced to keg parties. Never felt homesick again, bounced around different states and overseas for the next 12 years and had zero desire to move home. Spent another decade in politics, bouncing around between home, west coast and DC and never thought anything of it. I guess where I come from, being "home" after HS basically makes you a loser. Nothing much to do except drink, get high and get pregnant. You watch all your friends go from losers, to fucking losers, to world-class losers. I have HS classmates who never left, and just the idea of a 2-week temporary vacation to Japan overwhelms them. Forget about actually moving to another country.

But as the boss pointed out, at some point you start to get old. That means immediate family, relatives and close ones are getting old, and then other priorities kick in. I had to make the choice between a job offer from Uncle Sam that would've meant 20 years of the kind of adventures you can never tell anyone about, or staying close to family, starting a family, doing the "responsible" thing...and in the end my GOP-voting, misogynistic and traditional, bigoted leanings won the debate and I chose the latter.

I keep trying to convince myself I still have one last adventure in me, but in the end life always proves me an old pussy. Earlier this year I was offered a temporary leadership position in a U.S. government office in--get this shit--FRANCE. And before the angry 22yo in me could reply (and no offense meant to @Frenchy), "FUCK THAT SHIT, FUCK THOSE FROGS AND THEIR SHITTY CHEESE AND WINE AND PAINTINGS!!" I actually stopped to consider it. I even asked the other half, who had done extensive business in Paris in her previous career, what she thought, and she responded that I could do whatever I wanted but I would be moving to France alone.

Whatever, I'm just waiting for my homeboy DJT to return to the Oval Office, fire Rahm Emanuel and appoint me to an executive position in our Tokyo embassy.

 

[Frenchy]

I was offered a temporary leadership position in a U.S. government office in--get this shit--FRANCE. And before the angry 22yo in me could reply (and no offense meant to @Frenchy), "FUCK THAT SHIT, FUCK THOSE FROGS AND THEIR SHITTY CHEESE AND WINE AND PAINTINGS!!" I actually stopped to consider it. I even asked the other half, who had done extensive business in Paris in her previous career, what she thought, and she responded that I could do whatever I wanted but I would be moving to France alone.

Dude, I don’t care what you think about French people, I probably think worse
But show respect to our cheeses please
You guys’ Kraft and other abominations can’t compare. Heck can’t even be truely called cheese anyway

 

[just4fun]

Dude, I don’t care what you think about French people, I probably think worse
But show respect to our cheeses please
You guys’ Kraft and other abominations can’t compare. Heck can’t even be truely called cheese anyway

You have no Velveeta love my friend?

 

[Frenchy]

You have no Velveeta love my friend?

Im afraid to Google what this is