Monger Personal Partner Preferences Vs. Sex Worker Personal Privacy

[DJV]

ok, this topic is quite intense, I just can't totally agree with everyone and I wasn't exactly sure why.
Here's my thoughts (not to impose them, just saying it's personal and honest)

First, on asking a provider if she is cis/trans upfront, this is just silly to me because since a vast majority of women are cis, this is just what people expect. No judgement here, just basic statistical expectations/assumptions, like her height is between 150cm and 180cm, she has a pair of eyes, she is not android, etc.

About the P4P context : as I see it, it's a game, so some fairytales and fantasies are allowed. Does the provider only cares about money ? Maybe, but she won't say upfront and it's ok. Does she enjoy the event ? It appears so..
Does the guy has to apologize for his flaws and limitations ? No, he shows (or tries to show) some persona and can stick to it.
So for me, anything that can enrich the experience (both true or false) is ok and even encouraged.

I know that some people don't like abstract and intellectual things, so even in a P4P context they might need truth, facts, past records, etc. These people (I don't know why I have the word "cops" coming in mind) are plenty, so we might all agree on something on this topic, only to find that 90%+ of the wold population thinks otherwise. Not saying that we are wrong here, just that we can't ignore the thinking system of the majority.

To make things more complex, your own behaviour can be simultaneously a mix of "I want fantasy" and "I want a real experience", so...

About Ww's list of features, we talked about trans, and vegetarians, and yes there are conflicting zones between prejudices, personal preferences, education etc.
Like, for complex and/or obscure reasons, I have an opinion on each item on the list, and whether a certain "feature" would make my sex experience better or not, even the ones that I haven't intimately encountered yet. Not even talking about combinations : I would really like to have sex with a drug-addict trekie onanist vegetarian, please. (role-play accepted)

When it comes to trans, I remember I was once very intolerant with them, but I figured out after a long deconstruction process that it was truly a mix of inconfort, ignorance and religious judgemental education.
Reason and experience can help on exposing lies and prejudices, but I think discomfort, like fear, can be irrational or with multiple causes, and even nowadays I would be a little weird out by finding out (afterwards or not) that I slept with a trans.
Good news is I can enjoy unexpected situations and outcomes more than I fear them, so maybe I should just try or put myself in positions when it's likely to happen to put a final touch to the process !

 

[Wwanderer]

she is not android, etc.

Jumping to conclusions again, are we?!

I would really like to have sex with a drug-addict trekie onanist vegetarian, please.

Now that is perverted!

-Ww

 

[Simonka]

To make this issue more vivid and to expand it beyond the specific issue of trans sex workers, here is a list of things I have heard (mostly in online commercial sex forums) mongers say they find unacceptable (definitely and strongly wish to avoid) in their p4p partners:

1 - Women who have had any sort of cosmetic surgery (who are not "100% natural")
2 - Women who are in serious long-term relationships (have an SO or husband or wife)
3 - Women who are lesbians or bisexual
4 - Women who are pregnant
5 - Women who are mothers
6 - Women over a certain age (I have heard as low as 23)
7 - Women who are politically very liberal or very conservative
8 - Women who are feminists
9 - Women who have or have had cancer
10 - Women who have or have had STDs (in general or specific ones)
11 - Women who are being coerced to do sex work
12 - Women who use "hard drugs" or have ever done so
13 - Women who are of certain races or have any significant "blood"/heritage from certain races
14 - Ditto re certain ethnicities or nationalities or religions
15 - Women who are vegetarians
16 - Women who like Star Trek better than Star Wars
17 - Women who are too educated or not educated enough
18 - Women who masturbate (ok, that is an odd one which I only heard once and is presumably unusual)
19 - Women who dye their hair
20 - Women with tattoos and/or body piercings
21 - Women who are post-op trans (the case that got all this started)

Btw, the above list is in no particular order, just the order in which I recalled them.

Just to give this bare bones list a bit of color and specificity, re items 13 and 14 above, there was a monger on a board in the US, self-identified as a Texan, who frequently insisted that he would never want to be with any woman who was not a 100% native born Caucasian Protestant (no Jews or Catholics for him) and either politically conservative or apolitical. I suspect that he was/is a KKK member.

So, I invite all to consider whether or not a monger has the unlimited right to know all such personal information about a sex worker that would be required for him to make sure that his "welfare and peace of mind" is "upheld" (using @Ches 's words). Or is he only entitled to know some of those things? Or none of them? Is a sex worker obligated to disclose all such information that *might* be of importance to a potential customer? Or only if asked? Can she decline to answer? Can she lie? (Fwiiw, you'd be hard pressed to find a sex worker who has a SO who has not lied about it to customers, i.e., #2. And of course lying about age, #6, is pretty much the default assumption.)

-Ww

I was once with a white suprematist customer when I was a hostess. He was pretty adamant about his views. It was pretty hard to control him as alcohol kept pouring into his glass but I managed. Funny thing is I catch the white train on the last stop, I am not the "aryan" ideal. Maybe my body? I am still not sure. He told me to make sure I have white babies before he left, lol.

 

[User#8628]

I was once with a white suprematist customer when I was a hostess. He was pretty adamant about his views. It was pretty hard to control him as alcohol kept pouring into his glass but I managed. Funny thing is I catch the white train on the last stop, I am not the "aryan" ideal. Maybe my body? I am still not sure. He told me to make sure I have white babies before he left, lol.

Haha this is why i can’t be a hostess. I’d completely lose my cool in front of someone like that.
I’d cuss him out so badly.

 

[Simonka]

Haha this is why i can’t be a hostess. I’d completely lose my cool in front of someone like that.
I’d cuss him out so badly.

Oh no worries, a lot of girls did. You should have seen the drama and fights after people started getting drunk. The funny thing is, sometimes people who frequent hostess clubs, Kyaba and strip clubs actually enjoy the drama and the toxic environment, and sadly they abuse alcohol & drugs which adds salt to the wound. I somehow keep my calm unless someone physically tries to abuse me, and it was a curse because managers quickly noticed that and asked me to to "take care" of "extremes". Don't get me wrong, I had my favorite Japanese oji sans and white silver foxes, but sometimes being stuck with someone you don't enjoy was emotionally draining. Luckily as an escort I have a choice, and most clients are not into black lights & booze. I should have switched earlier.

Back to the topic, well this list doesn't leave much choice for women. What's wrong with having cancer anyway? Escorts are human too and they are as much under the risk of having cancer as other human beings.

 

[Wwanderer]

Back to the topic, well this list doesn't leave much choice for women. What's wrong with having cancer anyway? Escorts are human too and they are as much under the risk of having cancer as other human beings.

I don't really know. I was just listing things I had heard one or more mongers say they would avoid (if possible) in an escort, some of them quite weird imo. Anyway, my guess is that the idea of having sex with someone who has/had cancer (or some other serious disease) strikes some squeamish guys as unsexy, maybe even frightening or repulsive. It certainly isn't logical, but (imo) neither is an aversion to trans-women (which was the context in which I posted the list). Feelings often don't make sense. Some people don't like to go into hospitals because the whole idea of surgery or serious illness just wigs them out.

-Ww

 

[Simonka]

I don't really know. I was just listing things I had heard one or more mongers say they would avoid (if possible) in an escort, some them pretty weird imo. Anyway, my guess is that the idea of having sex with someone who has/had cancer (or some other serious disease) strikes some squeamish guys as unsexy, maybe even frightening or repulsive. It certainly isn't logical, but (imo) neither is an aversion to trans-women (which was the context in which I posted the list. Feelings often don't make sense. Some people don't like to go into hospitals because the whole idea of surgery or serious illness just wigs them out.

-Ww

Well, I don't think clients need to know about an escort's medical background except STD's which is a concern for them. We all go to hospitals, ladies clinics, dentists but I agree that it's rather unsexy to talk about that during playtime

 

[Wwanderer]

Well, I don't think clients need to know about an escort's medical background except STD's which is a concern for them. We all go to hospitals, ladies clinics, dentists but I agree that it's rather unsexy to talk about that during playtime

Just for you or anyone else who might not have read the bulk of this old thread but only the recent posts, the meta-issue being discussed was where one draws a line between an escorts need for personal privacy and people's need to know something about their sex partners. Most people believe that both of those two conflicting needs/"rights" have some validity, but opinions of where to draw the line vary widely. The specific issue under discussion was the obligation or not of trans escorts to reveal their medical histories to potential customers.

Just to insert a story (us old guys love to do that): I generally feel that an escort or other SW is not obligated to reveal anything at all about her romantic or other partners...and in fact is entitled to lie about them if asked. However, I once encountered an exception. Back in the 1990s sometime I was seeing a stripper for OTC fun whenever I was in town (in the SW US). After one of our sessions, she mentioned that she was hoping that her husband would soon be getting out of prison on parole. I asked her what crime he had committed, and she said assault. To cut a longer story short, she eventually revealed that he was a motorcycle gang member and had flown into a violent rage when he caught her with some guy she met in a strip club and beat him so badly that her customer ended up in a wheelchair, maybe forever. I'm not sure if her story was true or was just a way to get rid of me (which she could have done far more simply)...but it certainly did the latter!

-Ww

 

[hkAlone]

Interesting thread. Looks like I missed it 2 years ago.
My opinion is simple and largely inspired by buddhism.
For all of us, what we call the world is only a mental construction. We give to people and things essences which are only in our head. They are not real.

Most escort are good actresses anyway and if they feel it makes the experience better they will simply tell their client what he wants to hear about "almost" anything. Their clients will usually be happy to integrate into their world the nice things they hear.

Most guys don't like to hear that an escort has just been getting out of another appointment before meeting then.
Most guys want to think their escort is enjoying their presence.
Most guys want to feel they are good lovers.

Don't overthink about it. If you believe it, it becomes a part of your reality, and there is nothing wrong about it.
The notion of truth is another mental construction. Don't chase it. It's a mirage. Just be aware it's not real.

Am I diverging?
Not really.

What escorts should disclose to you is not the good question.
It's why they should.
As long as there are no ways you will figure out what is the truth, let the artist makes the show and enjoy a beautifully designed virtual reality.
If you don't like the truth, they should not tell you as you won't enjoy the experience and it's bad business for them as you won't come back. Only downsides.
In other words, except for few exceptions, clients are not entitled to hear the truth if they are not ready to hear it.
Few exceptions are when the "lie" can have long term sequels. I would put there the necessity to disclose STDs and sociopath boyfriend, ...

 

[Majestyk]

What escorts should disclose to you is not the good question.
It's why they should.
As long as there are no ways you will figure out what is the truth, let the artist makes the show and enjoy a beautifully designed virtual reality.
If you don't like the truth, it's bad for them to disclose the info as you won't enjoy the experience and it's bad business for them as you won't come back. Only downsides.
In other words, except for few exceptions, clients are not entitled to hear the truth if they are not ready to hear it.
Few exceptions are when the "lie" can have long term sequels. I would put there the necessity to disclose STDs and sociopath boyfriend, ...

Thank you, @hkAlone.
Many clients can’t handle the truth. On various occasions way back when, I was in that vulnerable position, too.
That has made me very grateful to all these amazing ladies who have helped broaden my horizons and enabled me to fully enjoy their company.

 

[Simonka]

Just for you or anyone else who might not have read the bulk of this old thread but only the recent posts, the meta-issue being discussed was where one draws a line between an escorts need for personal privacy and people's need to know something about their sex partners. Most people believe that both of those two conflicting needs/"rights" have some validity, but opinions of where to draw the line vary widely. The specific issue under discussion was the obligation or not of trans escorts to reveal their medical histories to potential customers.

Just to insert a story (us old guys love to do that): I generally feel that an escort or other SW is not obligated to reveal anything at all about her romantic or other partners...and in fact is entitled to lie about them if asked. However, I once encountered an exception. Back in the 1990s sometime I was seeing a stripper for OTC fun whenever I was in town (in the SW US). After one of our sessions, she mentioned that she was hoping that her husband would soon be getting out of prison on parole. I asked her what crime he had committed, and she said assault. To cut a longer story short, she eventually revealed that he was a motorcycle gang member and had flown into a violent rage when he caught her with some guy she met in a strip club and beat him so badly that her customer ended up in a wheelchair, maybe forever. I'm not sure if her story was true or was just a way to get rid of me (which she could have done far more simply)...but it certainly did the latter!

-Ww

She sounds like she was just trying to scare you off. In the club I worked sometimes girls wore wedding rings to fight against endless marriage proposals from Japanese clients.

It's a stigma against hostesses, strippers that they date violent criminals, yakuza, club owners, unemployed boyfriends, drug addicts etc and I've seen my fair share of that. I have a theory that sometimes when a girl enters the club business around the age of 18 and they have nothing on the side (school, daytime job) for years they mentally stay 18 because the club atmosphere doesn't stimulate your brain in the direction of a positive growth. So it's not very surprising when they act like high school girls who gravitate towards the bad boy image.

Personally I've had long term relationships while I was a part time hostess, but I have never been attracted to violent, uneducated thugs. I prefer cute nerdy guys who are not known to put people on wheelchair Maybe they will hack your accounts tho, lol.

 

[Wwanderer]

She sounds like she was just trying to scare you off.

Quite possibly so, maybe just her standard story to push guys away.

But to be clear, she saw me several times OTC for horizontal fun (mine) and profit (hers) and showed no signs of having any problems with the arrangement before ever mentioning this supposed violent prisoner-husband. In fact, she had always urged me to get in touch the next time I was in town etc after our dates. If she would had simply declined a date or told me she preferred not to see me again, I'd have been fine with it. Of course she had no way to know that, I realize.

Anyway, I had no inclination to find out if her story was true. In that time and place, it was easy enough to find someone else with whom to pass the time in similar fashion.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

My opinion is simple and largely inspired by buddhism.
For all of us, what we call the world is only a mental construction. We give to people and things essences which are only in our head. They are not real.

Old TAG threads, The Dharma hides in odd places and everywhere else too.

-Ww

 

[Frenchy]

She sounds like she was just trying to scare you off. In the club I worked sometimes girls wore wedding rings to fight against endless marriage proposals from Japanese clients.

It's a stigma against hostesses, strippers that they date violent criminals, yakuza, club owners, unemployed boyfriends, drug addicts etc and I've seen my fair share of that. I have a theory that sometimes when a girl enters the club business around the age of 18 and they have nothing on the side (school, daytime job) for years they mentally stay 18 because the club atmosphere doesn't stimulate your brain in the direction of a positive growth. So it's not very surprising when they act like high school girls who gravitate towards the bad boy image.

Personally I've had long term relationships while I was a part time hostess, but I have never been attracted to violent, uneducated thugs. I prefer cute nerdy guys who are not known to put people on wheelchair Maybe they will hack your accounts tho, lol.

Very thoughtful comments.
It has always intrigued me, this fascination for the « bad boys ». It’s not just the hostesses/escorts types who fall for them. I viscerally hated those 20-something guys on bikes , smoking, looking smug, who were preying on girls at the exit of my middle-high school (not even high-school ... They were targetting the 15-16 year olds!).

I was the nerdy, complexed , honest, good pupil type , virgin of course, and would not even dare to look at them in the eyes. Funny thing is... maybe it partly gave me the will to succeed later in life, get some kind of sick revenge in a way... the « hey , now I’m the one getting the sluts, bunch of losers! » feeling ... (certainly not the underage ones though, ugh). i know it sounds awfully wrong , sorry for this online psy-confession-rant.
Funny thing is that an ex-gf who used to date those types while young told me recently: « in a different way , you are more a bad boy than them ». Not sure whether it was a criticism or compliment.

Back to topic: I think the elders here are right. No need and better not to disclose too much of your private life. If you had been a bad-boys’ gal and told so, a weirdo client like me may get the whip from his closet to punish you mercilessly

 

[Simonka]

Very thoughtful comments.
It has always intrigued me, this fascination for the « bad boys ». It’s not just the hostesses/escorts types who fall for them. I viscerally hated those 20-something guys on bikes , smoking, looking smug, who were preying on girls at the exit of my middle-high school (not even high-school ... They were targetting the 15-16 year olds!).

I was the nerdy, complexed , honest, good pupil type , virgin of course, and would not even dare to look at them in the eyes. Funny thing is... maybe it partly gave me the will to succeed later in life, get some kind of sick revenge in a way... the « hey , now I’m the one getting the sluts, bunch of losers! » feeling ... (certainly not the underage ones though, ugh). i know it sounds awfully wrong , sorry for this online psy-confession-rant.
Funny thing is that an ex-gf who used to date those types while young told me recently: « in a different way , you are more a bad boy than them ». Not sure whether it was a criticism or compliment.

Back to topic: I think the elders here are right. No need and better not to disclose too much of your private life. If you had been a bad-boys’ gal and told so, a weirdo client like me may get the whip from his closet to punish you mercilessly

Well, take it as a consolation: I think nerds are much better in bed than thugs. Although I never had any sexual experience with thugs I can imagine they would be a bit mechanical. Nerds on the other hand are precise and pay attention to details The after sex talk is more intellectually stimulating too. I'd guess thugs would find my space related after sex talk pretty boring.

 

[Frenchy]

Well, take it as a consolation: I think nerds are much better in bed than thugs. Although I never had any sexual experience with thugs I can imagine they would be a bit mechanical. Nerds on the other hand are precise and pay attention to details The after sex talk is more intellectually stimulating too. I'd guess thugs would find my space related after sex talk pretty boring.

Maybe you’re right... never been in bed with thugs either !
I suppose they are only about self-gratification and barely any talk afterwards.
I think on that point millenial girls are on average slightly smarter than back in the days. Again , I asked my delicious SB about the bike thing for instance (which really was a chicks magnet circa 1985) , she replied « naaah... it’s for losers »
Or maybe it’s having a youtube channel with thousands of followers that does the trick, nowadays...

 

[User#8628]

for years they mentally stay 18 because the club atmosphere doesn't stimulate your brain in the direction of a positive growth

I think that depends on the club. I’ve heard that some pretty intellectual topics are discussed in some more classy clubs like in Ginza.
I would be interested in working in a place like that although I don’t know if i could keep up.

I do like guys with a badboy look and a bit tragic background story but i do like them to be collected and intelligent on the inside. Hard to come by..

 

[User#8628]

I think nerds are much better in bed than thugs. Although I never had any sexual experience with thugs I can imagine they would be a bit mechanical.

I disagree. I’ve always had the most intense orgasms with tattoo’ed guys. But maybe they just bring out the beast in me.

 

[Simonka]

I think that depends on the club. I’ve heard that some pretty intellectual topics are discussed in some more classy clubs like in Ginza.
I would be interested in working in a place like that although I don’t know if i could keep up.

I do like guys with a badboy look and a bit tragic background story but i do like them to be collected and intelligent on the inside. Hard to come by..

Ginza is so different. I wanted to work in higher end international clubs but most of them were shut down and the girls were already scattered around clubs in Roppongi. I've heard the clientele are more gentlemanly and expect a good conversation over loud and obnoxious behavior. Actually one day my customer brought a couple elegant Ginza hostesses over, and in Japanese he told them "these girls in Roppongi are dumb, this is not a place for you, you girls should better go home". I was speechless. Apparently my individuality didn't matter as long as I worked there.

 

[Frenchy]

I disagree. I’ve always had the most intense orgasms with tattoo’ed guys. But maybe they just bring out the beast in me.

And now Alice’s non-inked clients are probably crying and sobbing, alone in the dark, feeling like abject failures

 

[rob040188]

a bit tragic background story but i do like them to be collected and intelligent on the inside. Hard to come by..

Nerds on the other hand are precise and pay attention to details The after sex talk is more intellectually stimulating too. I

If only I could give these two statements more likes.

 

[MikeH]

And now Alice’s non-inked clients are probably crying and sobbing, alone in the dark, feeling like abject failures

Here you go, you can get it from Amazon:

 

[Frenchy]

Here you go, you can get it from Amazon:

View attachment 7702

Lol!
When I read her post , had kinda same reaction: time to invest in a tattoo parlor in Kabukicho !

 

[Simonka]

And now Alice’s non-inked clients are probably crying and sobbing, alone in the dark, feeling like abject failures

Or maybe getting an "Alice" tattoo on their chest for next time

I like this tattoo. It's punkish.

 

[Frenchy]

Or maybe getting an "Alice" tattoo on their chest for next time

View attachment 7703

As far as following the white rabbit goes, definitely better than MikeH’s proposal!

Anyway, why create a false dichotomy.. you can have tattooed nerds and even nerdy thugs, I suppose .