Question About Pua In Countryside, And Eye-contact

[Rickhhh]

Hey all,

So I've mainly learned PUA (which I consider as simply a natural act of approaching a girl I like and expressing my heart) from an American life coach. I agree with most of his methods, which mainly center around being natural and saying whatever is in your heart. I've all but lost my fear of approaching, and of rejection. However, this guy hasn't lived in Asia. He's one of those guys who thinks all women are the same, and I've learned that's not the case.

Though I should be building confidence through positive experiences, my recent ones aren't doing anything for my confidence.

I lived in Tokyo 5 years ago. At that time my game was horrible and I was clueless about pickup and didn't even try it much other than night clubs/bars/etc. Since then I've moved to Taiwan, and started studying and practicing, becoming a better version of myself, and becoming comfortable in my own skin. My game was great there and girls were pretty receptive. Now, I've moved back to Japan about 4 months ago to a medium sized, rather more conservative city.

It might not seem like much to some of the pros here, but I must have done around 10-20 approaches since I've been here (only when I see a girl I'm really into). I've had three or four cases where girls were showing high levels of interest with smiling and eye-contact, but when I approached, though they were polite and sometimes smiling and laughing, they either denied exchanging contact info or refused requests to meet up. Another girl was showing all signs of attraction, laughing at everything I said, etc.. (she was with a friend), and we exchanged Lines,.. but no reply. I've met other girls that show signs of attraction...but it's like from the get-go they've pre-decided that they can't take it anywhere with me simple because I'm a stranger (I'm avoiding saying foreigner because I don't think it's a racism issue). So I've often found myself having the irrational fear that girls here (I don't know if it's just this city, or what) are simply not open to the advances of a stranger simply because he's a stranger. This city is known for being friendlier, but more conservative than most.

I try not to believe it, but I feel the young women are living by some unnatural rule or code that says they can't go out with someone they met on the street. As a result, though I continue encouraging myself and approaching girls I like, I often find myself assuming that any girl who shows signs of interest is just going to say no. Anyway, I'd love to hear your advice and experiences- especially from someone who's lived in the countryside.

I'd also like to know what is the main difference between PUS that works in Japan vs America. My approach either simply going up calmly and, in a matter-of-fact kind of way, telling her I think she's cute, then proceeding to ask questions. The natural approach has worked for me in other countries... but is it something I should change here?

Furthermore, I'd like to talk about eye-contact. When I go to other countries, I'm somehow reminded of my own physical attractiveness through others' eye-contact and even the occasional compliment. Here, the constant avoidance of eye-contact, though I suspect a cultural thing, sometimes gets to me as well. Call me sensitive, but it also plays on my confidence. Has anyone else an explanation on this? I read about it to some degree in books but it was normally about when you meet someone new. I'm referring to when you're out on the streets.

I appreciate the advice!

 

[Ascent]

Your fear isn't irrational, they absolutely aren't open to the advances of a stranger by any stretch of the imagination. Most women here do everything they can to avoid contact with strange men. With considerable skill, mental fortitude and some luck you may be able to get past this lack of openness, but it is not easy and also relies as much on chancing upon an exceptionally uninhibited, attracted, horny or desperate woman.

You'll likely need to approach hundreds of girls to advance one to the intimate stages, and maybe thousands to get to the point where you have enough experience to do this routinely. Some thought about the level of logistics required to generate this volume of approaches probably suggests it is not feasible outside a bustling (and anonymous) metropolitan area. Much of the advice here is geared towards a few spots in central Tokyo, something to bear in mind. I don't live in central Tokyo and have never seen this kind of approaching occur away from a station, which is an indication of how unusual it is.

Most Japanese girls I have spoken to insist only idiots or sluts would go with a guy who tried to pick them up this way, so there may also be a very limited demographic of girls who'll do anything with you met via "cold" approach, although I'd tend to treat these statements as sceptically as the ones of the guys who contend any girl anywhere could be receptive to a stranger's advances. The street in particular is regarded even less favourably than online by most Japanese, at the very least approaching in a less stigmatised venue of some description is advisable.

You'll likely get some great sounding and highly motivational advice here from the few guys with any experience in the matter, but ultimately the girl who'll go with a stranger somewhere or return his messages is the exception rather than the rule. Trying to rely on approaching as a (sole) means of meeting women is probably a recipe for disaster.

Enjoyably chatting to and collecting the contacts of scores of women only for them to ice over as soon as they are out of sight will wear on you and colour your attitudes to Japanese women... perhaps best to gain your positive experiences with more receptive women first, and leave the coldest and least receptive women - those approached in public by a stranger - for later.

 

[jacqueh]

Most Japanese girls I have spoken to insist only idiots or sluts would go with a guy who tried to pick them up this way, so there may also be a very limited demographic of girls who'll do anything with you met via "cold" approach, although I'd tend to treat these statements as sceptically as the ones of the guys who contend any girl anywhere could be receptive to a stranger's advances.

This one is rather obvious to me. Not saying this would make them open to slut shaming in the eye of the society. @Solong talked about this point many times, there is a wide gap between what women are able to admit socially, and what they would actually do. Getting picked up definitely falls within this gap. Moreover, a lot of girls think they wouldn't fall for a guy who picks them up in a public place, and yet, when given the right frame and an original setup, they'll just go with the flow.

You'll likely get some great sounding and highly motivational advice here from the few guys with any experience in the matter, but ultimately the girl who'll go with a stranger somewhere or return his messages is the exception rather than the rule.

My understanding is that the whole point of pick up practitioners is to get good enough at it so they can seduce women who would otherwise not be prone to such tactics. That's the sole reason to try to improve their skills, as the other women (the pick-up friendly bracket) would be so open that there would be no need for difficult game strategies.

I'm not the biggest fan of street nampa, but efficiency is not what I think is wrong with it.

 

[Ascent]

This one is rather obvious to me. Not saying this would make them open to slut shaming in the eye of the society. @Solong talked about this point many times, there is a wide gap between what women are able to admit socially, and what they would actually do. Getting picked up definitely falls within this gap. Moreover, a lot of girls think they wouldn't fall for a guy who picks them up in a public place, and yet, when given the right frame and an original setup, they'll just go with the flow.

Absolutely, but there is also an uncertain proportion of women who would never go with anyone met like that. And we can certainly speculate with good reason that this proportion is far higher in Japan than many other nations. As far as I can see, most women here have never been successfully picked up in a public place, but probably most have been approached. Approaching is essentially sifting through random women to find the ones who are receptive, which is not many.

My understanding is that the whole point of pick up practitioners is to get good enough at it so they can seduce women who would otherwise not be prone to such tactics. That's the sole reason to try to improve their skills, as the other women (the pick-up friendly bracket) would be so open that there would be no need for difficult game strategies.

I'm not the biggest fan of street nampa, but efficiency is not what I think is wrong with it.

The point of cold approach pickup (at least according to the more honest practitioners) is more to efficiently find "yes" women from the available women in public, rather than convert "no" women into "yes" women (typically held to be very difficult). Either there are a fair few about but successfully pulling a "pick-up friendly" or "yes" woman takes an awful lot of game, or there are hardly any about but they can be easily pulled and the game required is in finding them... since PUA fails most of the time and can only be approached as a numbers game, it's one or the other.

 

[User#8628]

Absolutely, but there is also an uncertain proportion of women who would never go with anyone met like that. And we can certainly speculate with good reason that this proportion is far higher in Japan than many other nations. As far as I can see, most women here have never been successfully picked up in a public place, but probably most have been approached. Approaching is essentially sifting through random women to find the ones who are receptive, which is not many.



The point of cold approach pickup (at least according to the more honest practitioners) is more to efficiently find "yes" women from the available women in public, rather than convert "no" women into "yes" women (typically held to be very difficult). Either there are a fair few about but successfully pulling a "pick-up friendly" or "yes" woman takes an awful lot of game, or there are hardly any about but they can be easily pulled and the game required is in finding them... since PUA fails most of the time and can only be approached as a numbers game, it's one or the other.

I don't really understand why you imply that Japanese women are harder to pick up than women in other countries since nampa is such a major thing here and many pick up artists (mainly the creepy ones that most of us hate and ridicule, but we have all heard of them) describe Japan as a paradise.

I understand that it might not be easy in the countryside or some more conservative cities but in Tokyo i don't think chances are bad compared to other countries.

 

[jacqueh]

As far as I can see, most women here have never been successfully picked up in a public place,

This is unfortunately not something you or I can know, as even if they had been successfully picked up, they would not admit it, and make up a story to prevent being shamed.

The point of cold approach pickup (at least according to the more honest practitioners) is more to efficiently find "yes" women from the available women in public, rather than convert "no" women into "yes" women (typically held to be very difficult).

The point here is that we are talking about "yes" women as in women open to talk to you, not necessarily about women open to talk to any stranger. What I mean is that this numbers game is more about finding a woman whose taste you match than finding a "pick-up friendly" one. The underlying assumption being that most women can be picked-up, and that the success rate is therefore depending on the attractiveness and game of the guy, as an attractive guy will match with more girls, and a guy with game will "close" more efficiently.

 

[Ascent]

I don't really understand why you imply that Japanese women are harder to pick up than women in other countries since nampa is such a major thing here and many pick up artists (mainly the creepy ones that most of us hate and ridicule, but we have all heard of them) describe Japan as a paradise.

Because they are harder to pick up? Japanese in general do not want anything to do with strangers. In Tokyo, doubly so. In many countries it is considered normal to talk to strangers, and in some it is considered socially acceptable to directly approach women. Whereabouts in Tokyo would one see this occur with any degree of regularity?

Nampa is not really a major thing here. Established and visible it may be, but it is very much stigmatised and considered about the worst way a woman could meet a guy. Much of the Japanese language material on the subject also comments on how precipitously their numbers have been dropping in recent years.

Whether you mean Blanc and other such idiots, or money-grubbing PUA coaches in general, it's not really worth believing too much of what they have to say on the matter...

This is unfortunately not something you or I can know, as even if they had been successfully picked up, they would not admit it, and make up a story to prevent being shamed.

Entirely true. Although eliciting honest responses from intimate acquaintances is not impossible.

The point here is that we are talking about "yes" women as in women open to talk to you, not necessarily about women open to talk to any stranger. What I mean is that this numbers game is more about finding a woman whose taste you match than finding a "pick-up friendly" one. The underlying assumption being that most women can be picked-up, and that the success rate is therefore depending on the attractiveness and game of the guy, as an attractive guy will match with more girls, and a guy with game will "close" more efficiently.

The underlying assumption is not always thus though - most women approached are simply not "available". May not be single, in an appropriate frame of mind, willing to engage a stranger at all. The last point being the issue here.

Virtually all pickup type advice is to gauge interest, then immediately next the girl if she seems not to be feeling you. Somehow making her feel you doesn't really factor in, it is more akin to filtering than "seducing" (i.e. making a woman have sex with you rather than finding one who wants to).

 

[User#8628]

Because they are harder to pick up? Japanese in general do not want anything to do with strangers. In Tokyo, doubly so. In many countries it is considered normal to talk to strangers, and in some it is considered socially acceptable to directly approach women. Whereabouts in Tokyo would one see this occur with any degree of regularity?

Nampa is not really a major thing here. Established and visible it may be, but it is very much stigmatised and considered about the worst way a woman could meet a guy. Much of the Japanese language material on the subject also comments on how precipitously their numbers have been dropping in recent years.

Whether you mean Blanc and other such idiots, or money-grubbing PUA coaches in general, it's not really worth believing too much of what they have to say on the matter...



Entirely true. Although eliciting honest responses from intimate acquaintances is not impossible.



The underlying assumption is not always thus though - most women approached are simply not "available". May not be single, in an appropriate frame of mind, willing to engage a stranger at all. The last point being the issue here.

Virtually all pickup type advice is to gauge interest, then immediately next the girl if she seems not to be feeling you. Somehow making her feel you doesn't really factor in, it is more akin to filtering than "seducing" (i.e. making a woman have sex with you rather than finding one who wants to).

A lot of guys here do nampa. I've seen it happen to myself and other girls numberous times (also to Japanese girls), there is much more street pick up here than in north Europe where i'm from.
Big difference here is that half of the guys who try nampa actually offer money, say things like "how much". This must be because of the enjou kosai culture, which is over his peak as far as i know, but it's still there. In another country, "how much?" would mean you are dressed like a street walker but in Japan it hardly does.

Anyway, that is off topic but i feel like other girls and i do get picked up a lot in Japan. Nampa is very much alive . >.<

And yeah, i wouldn't pay too much attention to the biggest idiots in pick up, but still, they are not calling Japan heaven for nothing.

 

[just4fun]

so.....how much?

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

@User#8628
If you consider "how much" Nampa, I guess I have all the tools to do successful Nampa, but I seriously doubt that this was what the OP had in mind nor would it be my idea of connecting with a girl. Of course that approach saves you all the headache when wondering what the foundation of your relationship would be

 

[Solong]

Hey all,

So I've mainly learned PUA (which I consider as simply a natural act of approaching a girl I like and expressing my heart) from an American life coach. I agree with most of his methods, which mainly center around being natural and saying whatever is in your heart. I've all but lost my fear of approaching, and of rejection. However, this guy hasn't lived in Asia. He's one of those guys who thinks all women are the same, and I've learned that's not the case.

Though I should be building confidence through positive experiences, my recent ones aren't doing anything for my confidence.

I lived in Tokyo 5 years ago. At that time my game was horrible and I was clueless about pickup and didn't even try it much other than night clubs/bars/etc. Since then I've moved to Taiwan, and started studying and practicing, becoming a better version of myself, and becoming comfortable in my own skin. My game was great there and girls were pretty receptive. Now, I've moved back to Japan about 4 months ago to a medium sized, rather more conservative city.

It might not seem like much to some of the pros here, but I must have done around 10-20 approaches since I've been here (only when I see a girl I'm really into). I've had three or four cases where girls were showing high levels of interest with smiling and eye-contact, but when I approached, though they were polite and sometimes smiling and laughing, they either denied exchanging contact info or refused requests to meet up. Another girl was showing all signs of attraction, laughing at everything I said, etc.. (she was with a friend), and we exchanged Lines,.. but no reply. I've met other girls that show signs of attraction...but it's like from the get-go they've pre-decided that they can't take it anywhere with me simple because I'm a stranger (I'm avoiding saying foreigner because I don't think it's a racism issue). So I've often found myself having the irrational fear that girls here (I don't know if it's just this city, or what) are simply not open to the advances of a stranger simply because he's a stranger. This city is known for being friendlier, but more conservative than most.

I try not to believe it, but I feel the young women are living by some unnatural rule or code that says they can't go out with someone they met on the street. As a result, though I continue encouraging myself and approaching girls I like, I often find myself assuming that any girl who shows signs of interest is just going to say no. Anyway, I'd love to hear your advice and experiences- especially from someone who's lived in the countryside.

I'd also like to know what is the main difference between PUS that works in Japan vs America. My approach either simply going up calmly and, in a matter-of-fact kind of way, telling her I think she's cute, then proceeding to ask questions. The natural approach has worked for me in other countries... but is it something I should change here?

Furthermore, I'd like to talk about eye-contact. When I go to other countries, I'm somehow reminded of my own physical attractiveness through others' eye-contact and even the occasional compliment. Here, the constant avoidance of eye-contact, though I suspect a cultural thing, sometimes gets to me as well. Call me sensitive, but it also plays on my confidence. Has anyone else an explanation on this? I read about it to some degree in books but it was normally about when you meet someone new. I'm referring to when you're out on the streets.

I appreciate the advice!

I think most guys attempting to talk to women in Japan feel your pain and frustration at the behavior of some Japanese women. The combination of Japanese: fear, paranoia, insecurity, fakeness, and even cowardice can make for a difficult mess to deal with.

The key, in my opinion, is understanding the above and then approaching Japanese women differently.

1) Japan isn't the same as Western countries, so accept this.

As annoying or frustrated with the behavior of various Japanese women (and they aren't all like that) as pals or I would get, you have to realize that you can't instantly change such a person.

Some people are just small-minded, trapped in a small bubble, or too fearful to take any chances or give anything a chance in life. So, YOU will have fo find the open-minded or more international minded Japanese. Among the few ways to identify or connect with such people is to have conversations.

To accomplish your goals, YOU will need to become more adaptive. Adapt and thrive, don't adapt and fail.

In my case, I would approach Japanese women in different ways and opportunistically. Since many Japanese women acted fearful or excessively paranoid, I would try sitting and 1 to 1 conversations.

Situations where the Japanese woman were seated and relalxed. So bars, cafes, trains, etc... And where their friends weren't around or people who knew them, thus less group pressure or they felt less compelled to act a certain way in front of others.

2) Persistence & Fear Of Rejection

To be a successful PUA, you need to eliminate cowardice and fear of rejection in yourself. Various guys have different levels of dealing with this, because of different insecurities and personalities.

You are the man, and as such, are equipped with testosterone. Seeking and approaching is wired into male brains. Don't expect to take a feminine or effeminate approach, where you are passive and inhibited with fear and insecurities, to lead to success. How women play and succed at "the game" is different from men. Don't be afraid to be a man nor with something that's ultimately simple, like starting conversations.

You won't be liked by everybody and won't be successful on every attempt. Such is life. It's like baseball. You can't be afraid to swing, if you will have any chance at hitting a homerun.

3) It's Also A Numbers Game

"You are going to have to sift through dirt to find gold." It can require talking to a number of women, before you find a good one for yourself.

 

[Solong]

A lot of guys here do nampa. I've seen it happen to myself and other girls numberous times (also to Japanese girls), there is much more street pick up here than in north Europe where i'm from.

This must be because of the enjou kosai culture, which is over his peak as far as i know, but it's still there. In another country, "how much?" would mean you are dressed like a street walker but in Japan it hardly does.

Anyway, that is off topic but i feel like other girls and i do get picked up a lot in Japan. Nampa is very much alive . >.<

A lot of what many may think is "nampa" by Japanese guys on the streets is not. In various cases, the guys have a direct monetary motive or are doing a job. Examples- guys working at host clubs, porn recruiters, prostitute recruiters, hostesses bar recruiters...

And a lot of the so-called "street pickup" (actually recruiters) by various Japanese guys are near red light and club districts. Shibuya, Shinjuku, Ikebukuro, Roppongi, etc...

Big difference here is that half of the guys who try nampa actually offer money, say things like "how much".

When a guy offers you money DIRECTLY, this is NOT pickup or nampa, it's prostitution. He is directly soliciting the woman with money, and this requires NO skills.

In fact, women who are not prostitues or even prostitues that are not actively working at that time, can be highly offended by such Japanese guys. As if they can be bought so easily or they are that desperate for money.

...they are not calling Japan heaven for nothing.

That is not true. There are world renowned and high level PUA from other countries who call Japan thee MOST difficult and frustrating place for pickup.

Many Japanese women will actually be too shy, too fearful, too paranoid, or too cowardly to have conversations. Some will even run when they see foreigners or even when a Japanese guy attempts to approach them. Literally, RUN. And even if polite, it's can be a FAKE politeness to temporarily humor the guy, and where she will never respond to phone calls or messages.

The concept that Japan is a good place for foreign guys, was MEDIA created to sell papers and books, and as propaganda AGAINST foreign men. The "Charisma Man" myth. SOME foreign men can do well, but that's NOT the case for most and many are only temporary visitors that can't speak Japanese, know little about the culture, and know little about the areas they are in.

The purpose of the propaganda was also to stigmitize or shame any Japanese women talking to foreign men as "sluts" and "yellow cabs". Very viscous and foul levels of xenophobia.

So yes, SOME foreign men or Japanese guys can do very well, but Japan is not by any stretch of the imagination a "pickup heaven". That's more fantasy, than actual reality.

I've seen it happen to myself and other girls numberous times

PUA or Nampa for women receiving, is totally different than for men. It's much easier to get offers or when people are approaching you, because you can decide on the offer or reject them. It takes a much more mentally stronger person to approach others and withstand rejection. Even more so for men, even if a woman is approaching too, because women are more likely to refuse or reject offers than men are.

If a woman is sexually receptive to offers and she is comfortable with her sexuality, and add in if she is young and/or attractive, then SHE can be in HEAVEN. For her, it's all very easy or even overload, as she is swamped with offers.

For foreign women, Japan can be heaven and they play through loads of men, but she has to realize that her situation can be very different from those of foreign guys. Many foreign guys can: become to dislike Japan, get depressed about not finding a date, frustrated with Japanese fearful behavior, or stuggle greatly.

 

[User#8628]

A lot of what many may think is "nampa" by Japanese guys on the streets is not. In various cases, the guys have a direct monetary motive or are doing a job. Examples- guys working at host clubs, porn recruiters, prostitute recruiters, hostesses bar recruiters...

And a lot of the so-called "street pickup" (actually recruiters) by various Japanese guys are near red light and club districts. Shibuya, Shinjuku, Ikebukuro, Roppongi, etc...



When a guy offers you money DIRECTLY, this is NOT pickup or nampa, it's prostitution. He is directly soliciting the woman with money, and this requires NO skills.

In fact, women who are not prostitues or even prostitues that are not actively working at that time, can be highly offended by such Japanese guys. As if they can be bought so easily or they are that desperate for money.



That is not true. There are world renowned and high level PUA from other countries who call Japan thee MOST difficult and frustrating place for pickup.

Many Japanese women will actually be too shy, too fearful, too paranoid, or too cowardly to have conversations. Some will even run when they see foreigners or even when a Japanese guy attempts to approach them. Literally, RUN. And even if polite, it's can be a FAKE politeness to temporarily humor the guy, and where she will never respond to phone calls or messages.

The concept that Japan is a good place for foreign guys, was MEDIA created to sell papers and books, and as propaganda AGAINST foreign men. The "Charisma Man" myth. SOME foreign men can do well, but that's NOT the case for most and many are only temporary visitors that can't speak Japanese, know little about the culture, and know little about the areas they are in.

The purpose of the propaganda was also to stigmitize or shame any Japanese women talking to foreign men as "sluts" and "yellow cabs". Very viscous and foul levels of xenophobia.

So yes, SOME foreign men or Japanese guys can do very well, but Japan is not by any stretch of the imagination a "pickup heaven". That's more fantasy, than actual reality.



PUA or Nampa for women receiving, is totally different than for men. It's much easier to get offers or when people are approaching you, because you can decide on the offer or reject them. It takes a much more mentally stronger person to approach others and withstand rejection. Even more so for men, even if a woman is approaching too, because women are more likely to refuse or reject offers than men are.

If a woman is sexually receptive to offers and she is comfortable with her sexuality, and add in if she is young and/or attractive, then SHE can be in HEAVEN. For her, it's all very easy or even overload, as she is swamped with offers.

For foreign women, Japan can be heaven and they play through loads of men, but she has to realize that her situation can be very different from those of foreign guys. Many foreign guys can: become to dislike Japan, get depressed about not finding a date, frustrated with Japanese fearful behavior, or stuggle greatly.

Seriously, you think it's heaven to be bothered by creepy guys the whole time? Haha

 

[User#8628]

Even if a guy approaches you with "how much" it's still cold approach on the street and they can't know a girl is a prostitute.
Yeah, there is RLD in Ikebukuro, Shibuya and Shinjuku but also shopping malls, restaurants and other innocent entertainment, certainly not all women who walk around there are prostitutes.

And personally i don't see how it is more insulting to be offered money for sex than to be offered just sex by a random stranger. Both awkward if you are not into it!

 

[User#8628]

Seriously, you think it's heaven to be bothered by creepy guys the whole time? Haha

Let me clarify, i don't have a big problem with all pick up guys, some guys like the OP and Sinapse seem like nice people who just want to take a chance with girls they like. And i'm not saying i've never been picked up succesfully before, it can certainly work.

But i usually don't enjoy it if i'm on my way to somewhere and someone who's not my type slows me down and puts me in the awkward situation of having to turn him down.

That is not heaven for me at all. I rather flirt with someone that I LIKE first than getting approached out of nothing by a random guy. I don't need free sex with random guys when i can do this as my job. And if i was desperate in need for a guy, then i could just go to a host club and pay to pick exactly the guy who is my type.

So yeah, feel free to try cold approach, but dont think it's heaven for girls to be picked up constantly.

 

[Solong]

Seriously, you think it's heaven to be bothered by creepy guys the whole time? Haha

The context might not be understood. A woman can have multiple offers, where she decides at whim, what she feels like doing among a wide selection of guys.

A guy can have NO options and no offers, so nothing or must struggle greatly to even get one.

The situations are not the same. A woman's problem can be like that of a rich arrogant aristocrat, who is tired of the unworthy masses approaching her or even looking at her. To her, the men "beneath" her can be creepy or disgusting.

Where the struggle of men can be like that of the struggling poor who is having a hard time even surviving or finding any happiness. With some men, even a disgustingly ugly and/or fat woman, who is not what he wants or his type is considered an option. And a lot of guys, try to hide the pain of their condition and situation. Something most women will never ever understand.

I've seen both situations and struggles, and they are very much not the same.

 

[User#8628]

The context might night be understood. A woman can have multiple offers, where she decides at whim, what she feels like doing among a wide selection of guys.

A guy can have NO options and no offers, so nothing or must struggle greatly to even get one.

The situations are not the same. A woman's problem can be like that of a rich arrogant aristocrat, who is tired of the unworthy masses approaching her or even looking at her. To her, the men "beneath" her can be creepy or disgusting.

Where the struggle of men can be like that of the struggling poor who is having a hard time even surviving or finding any happiness. With some men, even a disgustingly ugly and/or fat woman, who is not what he wants or his type is considered an option. And a lot of guys, try to hide the pain of their condition and situation. Something most women will never ever understand.

I've seen both situations and struggles, and they are very much not the same.

And how about unattractive women?
They can't pick up and they wont be approached (except in KFC by TokyoJoeBlow maybe). Who are the real poor people? Being good looking is much more important when you're a woman than when you're a man.

 

[Solong]

And how about unattractive women?
They can't pick up and they wont be approached (except in KFC by TokyoJoeBlow maybe). Who are the real poor people? Being good looking is much more important when you're a woman than when you're a man.

Yes, but even an ugly woman (within some limits of sanity and not deformed) can find multiple willing guys if she is comfortable with being sexual. At times, even good looking guys and free of charge.

Where many of the unattractive men are or feel FORCED to PAY for women, even if they don't want to or are not emotionally satisfied by such. Again, not the same situations.

 

[User#8628]

Yes, but even an ugly woman (within some limits of sanity and not deformed) can find multiple willing guys if she is comfortable with being sexual. At times, even good looking guys and free of charge.

Where many of the unattractive men are or feel FORCED to PAY for women, even if they don't want to or are not emotionally satisfied by such. Again, not the same situations.

Yes she can get sex, but with guys who don't actually like her and some of them will openly insult her. Men are judged on many other traits (money being one of them) while women are only judged on looks.
Think of the things you say about unattractive women and how often you openly show you disgust to them. Its worse for women.

 

[Solong]

Yes she can get sex, but with guys who don't actually like her and some of them will openly insult her. Men are judged on many other traits (money being one of them) while women are only judged on looks.
Think of the things you say about unattractive women and how often you openly show you disgust to them. Its worse for women.

Women take money or have sex with guys they are only playing with too.

Many women can often at least can get SEX whenever the feel like it or take MONEY from guys, where many men get NOTHING from women or no emotional satisfaction. Women are also usually not taking care of men, where men are taking care of women financially or doing them favors.

One is often the spoiled pampered rich arrogant aristocrat, where the other is too often the poor or beggar. I don't see the situations as being equal.

That a FEW men are successful, isn't the situation of most men. Where MANY women are able to get over, isn't the same as the difficulty of many men. I'm not saying anybody always has it easy, for both sexes, but the situations aren't the same in terms of the modern situation and options that are available.

 

[Rickhhh]

I'm glad we're getting some good opinions here. I'd agree it's hard for unattractive women, but I'd also have to say that some of my friends surprise me (even Japanese) when they say they find some unattractive women to be just their type. Just trying to say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But of course men are more visual... we can't help what visually stimulates or excites us.

What's getting to my moral is the lack of openness of the advances of a stranger even after the girl has shown interest. Like I said, I've had several times now when girl's eyes were telling me it was on, then they rejected. However, in these situations they were usually with friends. And yes, I can't help but let it effect my attitude of Japanese ... here I thought I was in a rather open-minded city but in so many ways they bind themselves to needless rules and conform to social pressures. Now I can't help but feel stuck and limited. If I don't have an option in my small friends circle or in my tennis club I joined, that's pretty much it outside of cold approaches. I do have a few options that are below my standards, but I'm not willing to settle for less.

So back to my question... Now I just recently (a few months) have reached a point where I can cold approach without much hesitation. My recent results I've gotten discouraged from approaching even when the girl is showing signs of attraction. But of course, if she really blows me away by her looks, I'll approach. So the thing is, there have been a few times when I was here last year that I'd call "love at first sight" where I felt a sort of spiritual connection and the girl also showed the same high level of interest and everything about her said she wanted me to approach. I haven't had that opportunity come up since I trained myself in being fearless, and what's got me down is the worry that even that attraction or spiritual connection, if you will, won't be enough to make a girl take the risk of saying yes to me. So I'd like to ask some of the peeps here if they've had a similar experience where the girl's physiology and body/eye language showed "approach me" and it actually turned out to be true.

I also find myself relying on daily meditation, positive (often forced) self talk to reassure myself of my own value, trying to do things I love when I have time, etc... in order to maintain my level of confidence and not to come off as having a scarcity mindset as I wait for the next opportunity. I find myself having to refill my sense of confidence/self worth on my own as recent life experiences so far aren't doing anything to reinforce it.

Here, online dating is not really an option (I was never a fan anyway). There are a few clubs but the girls have unanimously made it a rule to not associate with the people they meet in the club after they leave. I read it in their faces, and experienced it with some 15-20 girls I've approached there... in which they seemingly respond to my banter but never let it go any further then that. One girl even texted in Japanese"I'm okay to talk to people in the club but meeting up with someone I met in the club is scary." That seems to be the attitude of 99% of the girls here. For example, I'd be in the club, and some girl would be with her friends. She'd be smiling and making eye contact with me. If she's cute, I'd smile back, maybe tell her she's cute. She'd smile and say "you're handsome!" Then immediately turn back to her friends and cease further contact. So what I'm trying to say is, night life is pretty much out of the picture, and the kind of women I meet at the foreigner bars are definitely not what I'm looking for, as I'm sure many of you can imagine.

Also, does anyone have thoughts about the eye contact thing?

 

[User#8628]

Women take money or have sex with guys they are only playing with too.

Many women can often at least can get SEX whenever the feel like it or take MONEY from guys, where many men get NOTHING from women or no emotional satisfaction. Women are also usually not taking care of men, where men are taking care of women financially or doing them favors.

One is often the spoiled pampered rich arrogant aristocrat, where the other is too often the poor or beggar. I don't see the situations as being equal.

That a FEW men are successful, isn't the situation of most men. Where MANY women are able to get over, isn't the same as the difficulty of many men. I'm not saying anybody always has it easy, for both sexes, but the situations aren't the same in terms of the modern situation and options that are available.

Getting sex is not the most important thing in life. As an unattractive woman, its worth nothing to be able to have sex or even sell sex when you get constantly put down and shamed for your body.

Also, how DARE you say women are not caring. Generally women have always been MORE emotionally caring than men. Its mothers that stay with the children when fathers fun. Its women that wait for men who say they are "not ready to settle" and play them around. The woman is traditionally the symbol of emotional care.

 

[User#8628]

I'm glad we're getting some good opinions here. I'd agree it's hard for unattractive women, but I'd also have to say that some of my friends surprise me (even Japanese) when they say they find some unattractive women to be just their type. Just trying to say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But of course men are more visual... we can't help what visually stimulates or excites us.

What's getting to my moral is the lack of openness of the advances of a stranger even after the girl has shown interest. Like I said, I've had several times now when girl's eyes were telling me it was on, then they rejected. However, in these situations they were usually with friends. And yes, I can't help but let it effect my attitude of Japanese ... here I thought I was in a rather open-minded city but in so many ways they bind themselves to needless rules and conform to social pressures. Now I can't help but feel stuck and limited. If I don't have an option in my small friends circle or in my tennis club I joined, that's pretty much it outside of cold approaches. I do have a few options that are below my standards, but I'm not willing to settle for less.

So back to my question... Now I just recently (a few months) have reached a point where I can cold approach without much hesitation. My recent results I've gotten discouraged from approaching even when the girl is showing signs of attraction. But of course, if she really blows me away by her looks, I'll approach. So the thing is, there have been a few times when I was here last year that I'd call "love at first sight" where I felt a sort of spiritual connection and the girl also showed the same high level of interest and everything about her said she wanted me to approach. I haven't had that opportunity come up since I trained myself in being fearless, and what's got me down is the worry that even that attraction or spiritual connection, if you will, won't be enough to make a girl take the risk of saying yes to me. So I'd like to ask some of the peeps here if they've had a similar experience where the girl's physiology and body/eye language showed "approach me" and it actually turned out to be true.

I also find myself relying on daily meditation, positive (often forced) self talk to reassure myself of my own value, trying to do things I love when I have time, etc... in order to maintain my level of confidence and not to come off as having a scarcity mindset as I wait for the next opportunity. I find myself having to refill my sense of confidence/self worth on my own as recent life experiences so far aren't doing anything to reinforce it.

Here, online dating is not really an option (I was never a fan anyway). There are a few clubs but the girls have unanimously made it a rule to not associate with the people they meet in the club after they leave. I read it in their faces, and experienced it with some 15-20 girls I've approached there... in which they seemingly respond to my banter but never let it go any further then that. One girl even texted in Japanese"I'm okay to talk to people in the club but meeting up with someone I met in the club is scary." That seems to be the attitude of 99% of the girls here. For example, I'd be in the club, and some girl would be with her friends. She'd be smiling and making eye contact with me. If she's cute, I'd smile back, maybe tell her she's cute. She'd smile and say "you're handsome!" Then immediately turn back to her friends and cease further contact. So what I'm trying to say is, night life is pretty much out of the picture, and the kind of women I meet at the foreigner bars are definitely not what I'm looking for, as I'm sure many of you can imagine.

Also, does anyone have thoughts about the eye contact thing?

Sorry for getting off topic so much.

I don't know why they smile and make eye contact first and then reject you. It might be that they were just looking at you because a foreigner is an unusual sight. Or they do like you but chicken out or are embarrased to be approached while their friends are around.

I have no idea about good places to look for girls in your city since you basically mentioned everything. Just keeping trying every time you see a girl that's really your type seems the only option.

 

[Ascent]

What's getting to my moral is the lack of openness of the advances of a stranger even after the girl has shown interest. Like I said, I've had several times now when girl's eyes were telling me it was on, then they rejected. However, in these situations they were usually with friends. And yes, I can't help but let it effect my attitude of Japanese ... here I thought I was in a rather open-minded city but in so many ways they bind themselves to needless rules and conform to social pressures. Now I can't help but feel stuck and limited. If I don't have an option in my small friends circle or in my tennis club I joined, that's pretty much it outside of cold approaches. I do have a few options that are below my standards, but I'm not willing to settle for less.

An open-minded city in Japan? Maybe one which is slightly more relaxed about its close-mindedness, but only the anonymity of crowds frees Japanese to any extent from the judgment of their in-groups.

So back to my question... Now I just recently (a few months) have reached a point where I can cold approach without much hesitation. My recent results I've gotten discouraged from approaching even when the girl is showing signs of attraction. But of course, if she really blows me away by her looks, I'll approach. So the thing is, there have been a few times when I was here last year that I'd call "love at first sight" where I felt a sort of spiritual connection and the girl also showed the same high level of interest and everything about her said she wanted me to approach. I haven't had that opportunity come up since I trained myself in being fearless, and what's got me down is the worry that even that attraction or spiritual connection, if you will, won't be enough to make a girl take the risk of saying yes to me. So I'd like to ask some of the peeps here if they've had a similar experience where the girl's physiology and body/eye language showed "approach me" and it actually turned out to be true.

Not really. Even extremely warm, engaged and interested girls tend to suddenly go cold once out of sight in my experience. But if they radiate interest before you approach, you can at least expect a warm response. If you come away with only their contact details, all bets are off as to what they will do next.

Even after having sex with them they will suddenly go no contact at times, so it is best not to trust them at all until a few encounters have gone down smoothly. For your own sake.

You'll need to make dozens or hundreds of approaches to these attractive, interested girls before it is likely one will go well, so detachment or options are necessary if you want to preserve your mental health dealing with them.

I also find myself relying on daily meditation, positive (often forced) self talk to reassure myself of my own value, trying to do things I love when I have time, etc... in order to maintain my level of confidence and not to come off as having a scarcity mindset as I wait for the next opportunity. I find myself having to refill my sense of confidence/self worth on my own as recent life experiences so far aren't doing anything to reinforce it.

Your worth doesn't derive from interactions with flaky idiot Japanese girls, does it?

Try social circle (make more friends in an organised fashion, make sure they are the right kind of friends, and know lots of women). Hardly a panacea, but short of moving, you sound like you need an adjunct to approaching. Having your self-esteem and sexual well being continuously held hostage by a bunch of two-faced girls you met on the street is not wise.

Also, does anyone have thoughts about the eye contact thing?

I don't know where you're from, but making eye contact with strangers on the street in Japan is not common behaviour.
It was so in my home country too. Most as I mentioned shun contact with strangers, let alone potential confrontation. Eye contact is a form of contact, and since everyone here is trying to negate the existence of everyone else or avoid a potentially fraught social interaction, they avoid it. Consequently, when you do it get from a girl, you can be fairly confident it is significant. I usually had notably warmer responses from these girls. Although in most cases on the street it is at least partly involuntary you may not be able to do anything much about it even if you do approach, as the girl might not be receptive in spite of her latent attraction.

The compliments are liable to be insincere, the politeness and promises empty platitudes, but unconscious actions should at least give some insight into what they are truly thinking. Although Japanese girls are frequently complete masters at feigning interest at all times it would seem.

 

[bruv]

About eye contact: Walking around in Tokyo it aint common to get girls openly checking you out. Or is it? try pulling out your phone and pretend to look at it but sneak a look ahead in your peripheral vision. Watch how many girls are actually checking you out when they think there aint a chance they'll lock eyes with you or be caught somehow. At least in my experience the difference is crazy