Question About Pua In Countryside, And Eye-contact

[Wwanderer]

I will dare and the answer may be shocking to many. What various women don't know, is the question of IF women actually love men has been long debated among MGTOW.

The general consensus is:

2) Women usually do NOT love men.

It's argued that it's mostly unidirectional, where usually only the man loves the woman. Where she doesn't actually love him as a person, but "loves" what he can DO for her or his usefulness to her.

To me it is shockingly sad and damaged sounding. Imo, any guy who takes even half seriously the notion that women are mostly faking the love they express to him/men...or even that they are not capable of loving a man, 1 - is not a suitable partner for any woman in a serious relationship, and 2 - should seek some form of therapy or help.

-Ww

 

[Rickhhh]

I will assume you want to be discreet about what city you are living in now...but I can't help but guess that it could be Shizuoka city? This is a super conservative city...like possibly the most conservative in the whole country haha. It is a beautiful city though with amazing food and hotties everywhere!

Nah, it's Hiroshima. Friendly people, but a bit on the conservative side.

I learned all my PUA from online and a book.

And many girls are definitely wise to the ultra-indirect if not mildly deceptive approach of faking needing directions or something, so being too indirect is unlikely to help either.

Well here's what it comes down to in many ways. Basically the way I see it, Japanese women (in particular) want to have some sort of security and assurance that having met the guy in public was "okay". For example, her girlfriends ask her "how did you two meet?" She says "Oh, he was lost and I helped him and we got to talking and hit it off." It sounds better than "Oh he approached and said I was cute so I gave him my number". Still, it just sounds too silly and closed-minded to me that they need this assurance, and that's why I'd love to dive into their minds and see what kind of rationalizations that have.

Someone said maybe it's about my texting. Well, I send 1 to 2 texts per day. In another country, I'd usually set the date within a few days. Here I might extend it out to one week. I simply ask questions about her, and answer her questions about me (if any are asked at all). Basically I can tell she's not interested by her initial lack of questions, so I don't think the problem starts when I text.

I'd argue that in both situations the girl would know I'm interested, but the indirect approach just might provide the needed excuse or justification that might ease the social pressure. However, I think it's a tradeoff. I think alpha females are used to guys displaying indirect actions to hit on them, and they'd probably find a confident, direct approach refreshing. If I were a girl and a guy was trying to hit on me indirectly and didn't show the balls to just say what he really wants, I'd be turned off as well (lol). So that's where I'm torn about how to approach the next one I find.

I'm not at the point of being depressed, and I can get a flow of dates from girls I met at international parties and the like. But what I'm only concerned about is when I find that rare one I'm really looking for and who seems to have been looking for me as well (which has usually been in public... and usually when we are crossing paths. But again, I didn't know pickup before so I never tried).

On a positive note, I've noticed that Japan has a lot of single beautiful women,.. and it just might be a result of the whole talking to strangers being looked down upon. Maybe an advantage for those of us willing to take risks and break social norms.

In case anyone is interested, I'll be trying different methods in the next few weeks and report my results (if I happen upon a girl who does it for me).

By the way, I appreciate all the advice. Staying on topic would also be appreciated!

 

[Solong]

To me it is shockingly sad and damaged sounding. Imo, any guy who takes even half seriously the notion that women are mostly faking the love they express to him/men...or even that they are not capable of loving a man, 1 - is not a suitable partner for any woman in a serious relationship, and 2 - should seek some form of therapy or help.

-Ww

1- It's not our call on what the opinions or beliefs of other men must or must not be.

That you or I personally don't like a belief or the reality of how something is, will be our issues, not something we can forcibly impose on others.

2- Who is suitable for who, is again not our call. Nobody elected us to be a god.

3- Because others think differently from me or you, doesn't mean they are crazy or wrong.

People thought it crazy the world is round and not flat, but who turned out to be right?

 

[Wwanderer]

@Solong - That is why the two sentences in my post start with "To me..." and "Imo, ...", respectively. I am thus *explicitly* not asserting any special authority and am certainly not in a position to "forcibly impose" anything on anyone in this context. All obvious I would have thought.


http://www.tokyoadultguide.com/threads/rest-in-peace-david-bowie.9974/#post-46510

-Ww

 

[Rickhhh]

So I said I'd give updates on my experiences.

I was with a Japanese friend and went into a Sukiya, and immediately noticed my type sitting with her friend at the corner not too far away from us. She was looking at me and called her friend's attention to me as well.

My friend had happened to win a teddy bear from the game center but didn't want it, so I went up and playfully asked if she liked teddy bears and gave it to her. She was laughing and showing high interest. After a while her friend went to the bathroom, and I came up to talk to her. Turns out, though still a student she can speak English and has traveled to America and Canada a few times. Here I thought "great, a girl that's my type and is interested in foreign countries and languages, so maybe open-minded as well." I sat and talked with them for about 10 minutes, then I had to leave so I exchanged Lines.

We exchanged two or three messages after a few days, but she wasn't really asking any questions about me,, but rather giving long answers about how her aspirations in foreign countries. She also said how she wanted to learn English and Chinese. As I've studied Chinese I offered we language exchange some time (I think of it as probably the most non-threatening way to meet a girl out). I haven't heard from her since. The questions still linger in my head "Is it because I'm a stranger? Is there really no one open to meeting someone they met in public... even this girl who has lived abroad for a few months and was exposed to outside cultures?"

 

[Chocoballs]

So I said I'd give updates on my experiences.

I was with a Japanese friend and went into a Sukiya, and immediately noticed my type sitting with her friend at the corner not too far away from us. She was looking at me and called her friend's attention to me as well.

My friend had happened to win a teddy bear from the game center but didn't want it, so I went up and playfully asked if she liked teddy bears and gave it to her. She was laughing and showing high interest. After a while her friend went to the bathroom, and I came up to talk to her. Turns out, though still a student she can speak English and has traveled to America and Canada a few times. Here I thought "great, a girl that's my type and is interested in foreign countries and languages, so maybe open-minded as well." I sat and talked with them for about 10 minutes, then I had to leave so I exchanged Lines.

We exchanged two or three messages after a few days, but she wasn't really asking any questions about me,, but rather giving long answers about how her aspirations in foreign countries. She also said how she wanted to learn English and Chinese. As I've studied Chinese I offered we language exchange some time (I think of it as probably the most non-threatening way to meet a girl out). I haven't heard from her since. The questions still linger in my head "Is it because I'm a stranger? Is there really no one open to meeting someone they met in public... even this girl who has lived abroad for a few months and was exposed to outside cultures?"

Maybe you can give a bit more information.
- How much time has passed since the last message?
- Did you propose a specific day to do language exchange?
- Why don't you send her a message now?

 

[vondoom]

from my experience, you either get replies fast, or there is just no interest... on the other hand, my friends are usually also slow too reply, because they are busy...
whenever a girl noticed im interested,or thought i could be interested, contact stopped, so better be prepared... there should be exceptions though, some people are busy...

 

[John Chavers]

Seriously, you think it's heaven to be bothered by creepy guys the whole time? Haha

YOU are DOING it WRONG. You NEED to CAPITALIZE and maybe even HIGHLIGHT words to be UNDERSTOOD. Triple POINTS if the JAPANESE WOMAN is afraid of his SOLONG COCK.

 

[Rickhhh]

Maybe you can give a bit more information.
- How much time has passed since the last message?
- Did you propose a specific day to do language exchange?
- Why don't you send her a message now?

-It was Friday. We were exchanging about one message per day.
-No, as I should check with her schedule first. It's just a strategy that works better in my opinion. But basically the end of my message said I'd be interested in language exchange, and I asked if she was as well.
-I don't because sending a double message would show needy behavior.

It's not so much whether she's interested that bothers me. It's the thought that she's interested but won't take things further simply because of the circumstances in which we meant and she's following some kind of social rules. It might seem ignorant to assume that all women are going to be like that here, but as it bothers me to have the thought linger in my mind, I'm hoping to get more of other people's experiences and advice.

 

[Manfreidi]

Looks like John ran out of money early this month, guess he is our problem now . . .

 

[Ascent]

I don't think it is productive to think of these girls as "following rules" - more like you simply don't exist to her as a real person because of the social context of your initial meeting. She needs to be someone open to forming a connection with a stranger, or you need to be encountered in a way which bypasses this issue, for her to consider you a person and not mere city fauna.

It's not just girls who do this - I was staggered to hear one of two longtime salaryman drinking buddies in a bar insultingly dismiss the other as a "stranger" because they had met at the bar and were not workmates or old classmates. Clearly it depends a lot on the individual, but I don't think chances are generally good with girls and unknown men.

Assuming she was not feigning interest even down to humouring you a little post-Line, as so many Japanese girls infuriatingly tend to do...

 

[Solong]

YOU are DOING it WRONG. You NEED to CAPITALIZE and maybe even HIGHLIGHT words to be UNDERSTOOD. Triple POINTS if the JAPANESE WOMAN is afraid of his SOLONG COCK. [emoji99]

You are outright trolling, insulting, and trying to instigate. Is it possible for you to actually debate the topic or a specific point instead.

 

[Sinapse]

more like you simply don't exist to her as a real person because of the social context of your initial meeting. She needs to be someone open to forming a connection with a stranger, or you need to be encountered in a way which bypasses this issue, for her to consider you a person and not mere city fauna.

This is somewhat true, but not set in stone. Everything is renegotiated in person, and there are several things you can do to override this. Don't get trapped into thinking she has set her mind against you before you even meet

 

[Rickhhh]

This is somewhat true, but not set in stone. Everything is renegotiated in person, and there are several things you can do to override this. Don't get trapped into thinking she has set her mind against you before you even meet

Great! Any ideas on things I can do? Feeling powerless at the moment! Basically, I learned pickup so that I could have more options and I want to know it's in my power.

 

[Sinapse]

Great! Any ideas on things I can do? Feeling powerless at the moment! Basically, I learned pickup so that I could have more options and I want to know it's in my power.

That's kind of the real crux of cold approach pickup, innit? This is largely what the initial interaction has to deal with, and thus a lot could be said about this. For now though, I'll just say that having a very strong frame + cutting deeper are two of the most powerful tools for both asserting normalcy and getting to know who she is on a deeper level quickly.

 

[Rickhhh]

That's kind of the real crux of cold approach pickup, innit? This is largely what the initial interaction has to deal with, and thus a lot could be said about this. For now though, I'll just say that having a very strong frame + cutting deeper are two of the most powerful tools for both asserting normalcy and getting to know who she is on a deeper level quickly.

Thanks for the tip- could I ask you to elaborate on having a "strong frame"?

 

[Sinapse]

The two characters in this video both have strong frames at first, but one turns out to be stronger than the other



Note: this is a very aggressive frame battle. I don't recommend acting at ALL like this, especially not with women you want to like you, but the concept of "frame" is pretty clear in this video. In short, you could describe your "frame" as the certainty which with you believe in yourself, your convictions, and your actions. The stronger your frame is, the more it influences other people and pulls people into it.

I'll leave it with another example - more friendly this time!



This guy doesn't care what everyone around him thinks - and coincidentally everyone wants to join his party. His strong frame (dancing without a care in the world) pulls people who also have that desire within them, yet are more unsure in their frame (worried about looking weird or dancing alone) and pretty soon his otherwise boring little side corner of the field has captured the attention of everyone. What started out as strange or awkward ends up being a party that, if you aren't a part of, you wish you were! Relating this back to the topic at hand, the more you normalize talking to women anywhere in your own mind, the more normal they will feel, and the more they will come out to date you

 

[Ascent]

Great! Any ideas on things I can do? Feeling powerless at the moment! Basically, I learned pickup so that I could have more options and I want to know it's in my power.

PUA jargon aside, it is a numbers game. All that's definitely in your power is approaching a large enough number of women to maximise your chances of meeting a receptive one. Hence your situation may be difficult - the cold approach advice is predicated on an unlimited supply of strangers you can quickly and easily approach without repercussions (which means camping out in front of a station or the like).

This is somewhat true, but not set in stone. Everything is renegotiated in person, and there are several things you can do to override this. Don't get trapped into thinking she has set her mind against you before you even meet

For now though, I'll just say that having a very strong frame + cutting deeper are two of the most powerful tools for both asserting normalcy and getting to know who she is on a deeper level quickly.

It's a reasonable generalisation... with cold approach you're either finding the outliers for whom it does not hold or getting lucky with a girl for whom such constraints are weakened (highly attracted, desperate, new to area, etc.), or maybe you have weakened them for her.

Ensuring the interaction has an appropriate social context or manufactuing one as necessary would be the key to the not having an uphill struggle all the time just to get a response. Approaching a girl on the street, at a bar, at a party, or on a dating app may all be the same basic interaction, but receptivity is going to differ radically in each case.

 

[Solong]

PUA jargon aside, it is a numbers game. All that's definitely in your power is approaching a large enough number of women to maximise your chances of meeting a receptive one. Hence your situation may be difficult - the cold approach advice is predicated on an unlimited supply of strangers you can quickly and easily approach without repercussions (which means camping out in front of a station or the like).





It's a reasonable generalisation... with cold approach you're either finding the outliers for whom it does not hold or getting lucky with a girl for whom such constraints are weakened (highly attracted, desperate, new to area, etc.), or maybe you have weakened them for her.

Ensuring the interaction has an appropriate social context or manufactuing one as necessary would be the key to the not having an uphill struggle all the time just to get a response. Approaching a girl on the street, at a bar, at a party, or on a dating app may all be the same basic interaction, but receptivity is going to differ radically in each case.

To an extent, it's a numbers game, but that's not the only thing going on and there are different ways to play the game.

In his case, he could supplement with online dating or social circles. In this context, we are talking about effort too. All the fish swimming by in the world means nothing, if you don't make the effort to catch some.

And along these lines, is learning to be opportunistic. That is, when he see's an acceptable or viable opportunity to talk with a woman, make it happen.

And a thing about numbers. When a person has to be more efficient, oddly enough, various guys are going to rise to the challenge. If he or she knows that they have to make the most out of the opportunity presented, then it's more likely to happen.

 

[Sinapse]

PUA jargon aside, it is a numbers game

Yeah, and darts is a numbers game because if you throw more darts you get more bullseyes, right? Well yes but that totally ignores the huge amount of skill involved

with cold approach you're either finding the outliers for whom it does not hold or getting lucky with a girl for whom such constraints are weakened (highly attracted, desperate, new to area, etc.), or maybe you have weakened them for her.

Because social interactions are renegotiated each time and not subject to immutable laws, you neither need find "outliers" nor "get lucky". If they like you, they'll like you no matter where you meet them, if you can break through the initial barrier.

 

[Rickhhh]

The two characters in this video both have strong frames at first, but one turns out to be stronger than the other

Wow.. I know I'm in the minority for saying this but (lol) ... that's the first Key and Peele video I've ever laughed out loud at!

 

[John Chavers]

Looks like John ran out of money early this month, guess he is our problem now . . .

Yeah, that's not happening. TAG has really turned into PUApalozza. I have no idea how the lot of you supposedly run the numbers on the streets and yet still find time to flood this site with humblebrags.

At least the escorts on this site turn $400+ per trick, so they have plenty of time between Johns and can still pay the rent.

 

[Ascent]

And along these lines, is learning to be opportunistic. That is, when he see's an acceptable or viable opportunity to talk with a woman, make it happen.

If you need to talk to 50 women to get a date you even being highly opportunistic (a few approaches a day?) is not going to result in the numbers needed to get anywhere. Approaching pretty much demands an organised effort.

Yeah, and darts is a numbers game because if you throw more darts you get more bullseyes, right? Well yes but that totally ignores the huge amount of skill involved

Success rate 1% or 5%, still a numbers game. With darts you can still win even if you don't hit a bullseye.

Because social interactions are renegotiated each time and not subject to immutable laws, you neither need find "outliers" nor "get lucky". If they like you, they'll like you no matter where you meet them, if you can break through the initial barrier.

They'll like you, sure. But that isn't the point. They'll likely never come out to meet you, and there's nothing you can do to renegotiate a social connection with a woman who isn't reading your texts. No immutable laws apply, but the general trends do, and they are towards astonishingly low levels of receptivity.

 

[Sinapse]

Success rate 1% or 5%, still a numbers game. With darts you can still win even if you don't hit a bullseye.

With darts, NOT trying to hit the bullseye is actually the best strategy (from my limited understanding). In very much the same way, in pickup, basing your entire success or failure on the binary of "did I get laid" is probably the single worst way of thinking about it. Myopic focus on trying to score a bullseye will leave you with nothing. I can't overstate this fact, and how much it's probably having a negative effect on your interactions, self-esteem, and evaluations of the method.

They'll like you, sure. But that isn't the point. They'll likely never come out to meet you, and there's nothing you can do to renegotiate a social connection with a woman who isn't reading your texts. No immutable laws apply, but the general trends do, and they are towards astonishingly low levels of receptivity.

They definitely DO come out to meet you if your initial interaction was solid. If you think you are having a lot of solid interactions and you think the girl likes you, yet none come out or read your texts, you have to re-evaluate. What you are doing isn't actually as effective as you think based on their reactions during the first interaction. However, I can guarantee you that a good initial interaction does make or break the difference of whether she will come out again or not.

 

[Solong]

With darts, NOT trying to hit the bullseye is actually the best strategy (from my limited understanding). In very much the same way, in pickup, basing your entire success or failure on the binary of "did I get laid" is probably the single worst way of thinking about it. Myopic focus on trying to score a bullseye will leave you with nothing. I can't overstate this fact, and how much it's probably having a negative effect on your interactions, self-esteem, and evaluations of the method.



They definitely DO come out to meet you if your initial interaction was solid. If you think you are having a lot of solid interactions and you think the girl likes you, yet none come out or read your texts, you have to re-evaluate. What you are doing isn't actually as effective as you think based on their reactions during the first interaction. However, I can guarantee you that a good initial interaction does make or break the difference of whether she will come out again or not.

I play darts, you aim for your target/bullseye. The more you practice and perfect your technique, the better your score will usually be.

A player can have issues with the understanding of technique, that they are getting to uptight about trying to hit the bullseye or in general, versus focus on fundamentals and using proper technique.

And if you are having issues with getting good scores, coaching and advice from experts help greatly.