SESTA/FOSTA Law Passage > What it means for TAG?

User#8628 said:
Americans will certainly want to play more on business trips in countries where they are safe. I'm sorry for the American girls but for us its not all bad news.
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@Babaram - you make a lot of valid points. But in any change to a business environment there will be winners and losers. I'm sure, escorts will continue to get business in the US. I believe most girls will be resourceful.
 
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I hope that any Am
impish said:
And it is now signed into law...

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qvxeyq/trump-signed-fosta-sesta-into-law-sex-work
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Almost everyone voted for it, although its a super invasive law and could even potentially be used out of sex work contest.

I swear, NOBODY is ever on the side of escorts! Its not cool to stand up for us. Both for left wing and right wing it gains them voters if they promise to go on a witch hunt on prostitution.
And its just exactly that, like with witches, people hate us because we're independent women who can take care of ourselves!
Just a bunch of guys who don't want women to have any power and women who are scared we'll take their men, hah! I'm so done with the whole world fucking hating us for no reason, i'm so angry!
 
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I’m with you, Alice. But prostitution has always, in all societies, been regulated and a fringe activity. I claim this without being a professor of history. I don’t think there has ever been a society or culture where prostitutes have enjoyed the same status and privilege as other women. Not only is that clear already in the Bible, but goes back as far as there are a recorded history.

It has been tolerated to various degrees under verious times and cultures. But it has never been an unproblematic career choice.

On the contrary, I think the last 20 years have been unique. It’s the Internet that made the lifestyle of the modern high-end escort (i.e not forced by force or poverty, but driven by free choice) possible.

You will find a way. Internet is still there.
 
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Sorry to be the advocate of the devil but the law is primarily against human trafficking . And yes there are some perverse effects against independent escorts and that’s regrettable but they were not the primary targets. Lets not forget that .
 
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Lars Lust said:
I’m with you, Alice. But prostitution has always, in all societies, been regulated and a fringe activity. I claim this without being a professor of history. I don’t think there has ever been a society or culture where prostitutes have enjoyed the same status and privilege as other women. Not only is that clear already in the Bible, but goes back as far as there are a recorded history.
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I don't agree. There have been plenty of societies where prostitution has been a SACRED profession.

I meantioned Dangerous Beauty in a thread, its about a woman in old time Venice who chooses to be an escort because it allowed her to be literate and to be allowed into many places where normal women cant come, like libraries. Also in Japan, I believe Oiran had a very high social status and were certainly good enough to marry rich samurai if they wanted to get out of the profession and had a suitor.
There have been many old time nature religions where women having a lot of sex and getting somehow rewarded for that is important and those women are often the spiritual leader or even the strategic leader of the folk. The main enemy of prostitution is Christianity.
I do agree that even when courtesans where holding a high status, they were in danger of people turning against them (like later in Dangerous Beauty), i guess people are always intimidated by strong women. But i don't think that prostitutes have always had a low status per se.
 
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I have to agree with Alice on this, while "prostitutes" may have never had any type of social standing in history that is because it is primarily Christian history. Outside of the Christian influence sex workers have not always been shunned.

Many people who otherwise consider themselves libertarians even go after sex workers based on morality, even though most claim that what others do only matters if it effects others. When the truth is that prostitution is a victimless crime.

Sex trafficking involves multiple other crimes, the actual sex is a small part of the criminal activity. And yet that is the part that people focus on. But this is really no different than gun control, just not as many people supporting sex workers in the US as guns. Many people are unwilling to speak up because they are afraid to be "outed" as a supporter.
 
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Frenchy said:
Sorry to be the advocate of the devil but the law is primarily against human trafficking . And yes there are some perverse effects against independent escorts and that’s regrettable but they were not the primary targets. Lets not forget that .
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Human trafficking is probably a bigger problem in Europe than the States with Eastern Europen women and others being exploited. Hopefully the European authorities will start a crack down on this repulsive form of slavery.

That said, hopefully legitmate SW can continue their operations.
 
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DJnLJ said:
I have to agree with Alice on this, while "prostitutes" may have never had any type of social standing in history that is because it is primarily Christian history. Outside of the Christian influence sex workers have not always been shunned.
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While there are non-religious factors in play too, such as fear/resentment of powerful women as @User#8628 mentions, I think there is much truth to the above. I’d lay it at the feet of all three Levantine religions. An anti-sexual, anti-female and general anti-pleasure ethos is embedded deeply in all of them. Islam is probably the most extreme in this respect.

But the situation is *gradually* improving I think.

-Ww
 
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User#8628 said:
I'd say it depends on the kind of Islam and other religions. There are some very strict Christian groups that are easily on the same level afaik.

I just hope people will stop the extremism in the long run.
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Yeah, there is a big range of attitudes and behaviors in all the religions, and all have their nearly insane extremists, but my impression is that attitudes towards sex and women are more repressive and oppresive in Islam-dominated cultures than in Christian-dominated ones on average.

-Ww
 
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Wwanderer said:
Yeah, there is a big range of attitudes and behaviors in all the religions, and all have their nearly insane extremists, but my impression is that attitudes towards sex and women are more repressive and oppresive in Islam-dominated cultures than in Christian-dominated ones on average.

-Ww
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Except the United States of course :D
 
Wwanderer said:
my impression is that attitudes towards sex and women are more repressive and oppresive in Islam-dominated cultures than in Christian-dominated ones on average.
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IMO it's something that's fairly common to the Abrahamic religions in general.
 
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I'd say the fundamentalist views in all three Levantine/Abrahamic religions are pretty similar wrt sexuality, women, human rights etc. What differs is the extent to which fundamentalists dominated different countries' cultures and politics. @User#8628 refers to Christian fundamentalists in the US, and they do indeed wield a disturbing amount of influence, but they are nevertheless a minority, and a shrinking one at that. In quite a few Islamic nations, they are in the majority, the large majority in some cases. And, alarmingly, they appear to be a growing majority in some places (e.g., Egypt).

Here is an interesting illustration of the difference it makes:

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi...en-s-right-to-vote-around-the-world-1.1635917

-Ww
 
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User#8628 said:
There have been plenty of societies where prostitution has been a SACRED profession.
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Sorry but no. There were less than a handful of systems in the Fertile Crescent where temple prostitution was practiced but it was more like compulsory civil service than “sacred”.
 
Wwanderer said:
the fundamentalist views in all three Levantine/Abrahamic religions are pretty similar wrt sexuality, women, human rights etc.
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The splits off Judaism maybe so but that’s just not the case in strict Jewish religious law or the Torah.
 
Wwanderer said:
I'd say the fundamentalist views in all three Levantine/Abrahamic religions are pretty similar wrt sexuality, women, human rights etc.
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If only they'd kept all that nonsense in the desert where it belonged....
 
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TheScientist said:
Sorry but no. There were less than a handful of systems in the Fertile Crescent where temple prostitution was practiced but it was more like compulsory civil service than “sacred”.
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I'd be really surprised if there is reliable information on attitudes toward prostitution or sexuality in general among any significant number of the many many ancient cultures around the world and over the millennia. And I'd bet that even for the ones we know a bit about, exactly how people thought and felt about it is debatable, to put it mildly.

-Ww
 
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Honestly it was difficult for me to even imagine that the right to engage in private consensual sex between adults could be intervened this way in the US. It's just this month that I realized that over so many years so many sex workers have sought constitutional protection for their sexual privacy and been defeated in the court.

It should be fine in Japan. Japan is after all a country of sex-friendly paganism, said to be created by sex between a god and a goddess.
 
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Wwanderer said:
Isn't the story of Adam and Eve, the archetypical case of blaming evil/sin on women and sex while excusing the man, in the Torah?

-Ww
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Thats a Christian origin interpretation. Jews see both of them at fault for different reasons but its not "her fault first so women bad" at all. In actuality their disobedience isn't even important since it was necessary for humans to leave Eden anyway.

Just in general, most Christian interpretations or understandings of the Torah are way off base. Its partly due to repeated mistranslations and partly because they rejected the owner/operator manual which details how the law actually works.

This isn't the thread to go into detail on this so I'll stop here.

Wwanderer said:
I'd be really surprised if there is reliable information on attitudes toward prostitution or sexuality in general among any significant number of the many many ancient cultures around the world and over the millennia.
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Evidently there are written records to support the instance I pointed out. Note that I wasn't commenting on attitudes of the public, just refuting a specific claim.
 
Frenchy said:
Sorry to be the advocate of the devil but the law is primarily against human trafficking . And yes there are some perverse effects against independent escorts and that’s regrettable but they were not the primary targets. Lets not forget that .
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"Human trafficking" is being conflated with prostitution. They say "human trafficking," (because, how can anyone be for human trafficking?) but they mean "prostitution." Just like they say "child porn" (because, how can anyone be for child porn?) but they mean taking away your right to read anonymously.
 
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Babaram said:
"Human trafficking" is being conflated with prostitution. They say "human trafficking," (because, how can anyone be for human trafficking?) but they mean "prostitution." Just like they say "child porn" (because, how can anyone be for child porn?) but they mean taking away your right to read anonymously.
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Hmmmm that’s a bit excessive assumptions don’t you think? Individual escorts websites are not targeted , for instance.
And there are always other possibilities to read stuff anonymously if you want to.
 
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