Wwanderer
Kids, don't try this at home!
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Do you think the Reform rabbis would agree? And if not, who could we (outside Judaism) believe?
For whatever it is worth, my personal contact with Jewish religious life (via my in-laws) is mostly in the American Conservative Movement...but also some with those in the Reform Movement.
Here's an interesting account of how the way women are treated in American Conservative Judaism has changed during recent decades (just googled it up):
http://www.tifereth-israel.org/drash-women-bimah-how-ti-became-egalitarian
It is clear just from this one woman's life experiences that much has changed for the better and that Jewish religious life did not include women even remotely equally/fairly as recently as a few decades ago, well within my lifetime.
That's all nice, but although you are not quite saying so explicitly, it appears that you claim that you are familiar with (maybe expert in) some sect/denomination/version/movement of Judaism in which women were not subjected to discrimination and bias. Do I have that right? Let me ask a few more specific questions about the (version of) Judaism you are discussing: Has it always allowed women the equal right to become rabbis? Cantors/hazzans? Have they always been counted toward a minyan? Have they always had bat mitzvahs? If so, have they always been equivalent or identical to the bar mitzvahs by which boys become men (in religious terms)? Have they always been as common on the bimah as men?
(For any readers still following this discussion but who are not familiar with some of the Jewish religious terminology above, let me translate one point that I find particularly shocking and offensive. Jewish law indicates that there should be at least ten Jewish adults present in a congregation for it to "function" and be valid, i.e., to allow the performance of religious ceremonies and rituals, including reciting of prayers and so forth. Having this group of ten is called having a minyan. Traditionally in all forms of Judaism with which I am familiar, women did not count toward this minimum quorum of ten throughout most of history. That has changed in many Jewish groups/sects in recent decades but is still the case in some. In other words, in most or all of traditional Judaism, women quite *literally* did not count as adult people for religious purposes. I don't know how one could be more explicitly and blatantly anti-woman than that! But perhaps @TheScientist knows about some form of Judaism in which women have always been counted toward a minyan. That's what I'm asking him above.)
If the answers to these questions are not "yes", and I'm fairly confident that they are not, then it seems crystal clear to me that the tradition regards women as some sort of lower class of person who should be denied full access to and participation in the religions most fundamental activities and responsibilities. I still stand by my generalization.
-Ww
