The Issue Of Weight

[User#16452]

So, there was a thread concerning a fuller figured AV star that prompted a lot of comments on her figure. The thread is no longer available (that I can see), but I can't help be quite surprised by the reaction on TAG, a generally fairly accepting place.

In my understanding of the situation, there are two categories that somone considered overweight might fall into:

1. Involuntarily overweight. This person is unhappy with their figure and hurtful comments will only make things worse. It's like kicking someone when they are down. Reading comments directed at someone else overweight will not make someone in the same situation feel good either. Even if it is very unlikely that the AV star would read this thread, an unwelcoming atmosphere to those with a fuller figure is not pleasant.

It must be noted that not all involuntary people merely lack willpower or dedication, some have genuine medical issues.

2. Voluntary overweight. This person maintains a fuller figure intentionally, perhaps because they or their partner find it more attractive. In the case of the aforementioned AV star, it could very well be that she finds having a fuller figure more profitable.

In my mind anyway, intentially having a fuller figure should be considered a form of "body modification". It is their body and their choice to keep it in whatever choice they might please.

For example, I'm not particularly attracted to large ear gauges but I can respect that the person doing that likes the way they look and is not harming anyone in their own choice. Some people often bring up the issue of high weight being unhealthy, but smoking is also unhealthy, if not more, yet I do not recall seeing smokers shamed in such a way. Why is being intentially overweight any different?

I'm very curious, in this day and age where so many other things are more tolerated, that weight seems to still be a "free for all" area. The internet is littered with "fat people hate" stories, when realistically, it is easy to find unflattering stories and traits in any targeted group. "Fat acceptance" campaigners are constantly mocked, just for asking to be accepted into society for how they choose to be in their own body.

To me, this makes no sense and I can't help but feel disappointed that TAG also is lacking here. I'd be very curious to read the thought process behind those who posted in the AV thread.

Edit: As a post thought, a lot of this could also apply to those who are quite thin but not unheathily so.

 

[jelle]

Your post has caused and will cause me to reconsider how I feel about overweight people. There are a lot in my extended family.

Nonetheless, I'm not sure if comparing to smoking gives a strong argument.

Some people often bring up the issue of high weight being unhealthy, but smoking is also unhealthy, if not more, yet I do not recall seeing smokers shamed in such a way. Why is being intentially overweight any different?

1. I've seen many people openly shame strangers in public for smoking, but I've never a stranger openly shame an obese person. Maybe I don't get out much.

2. I've seen strangers shame smokers that I've been with. Excluding in childhood at schools and camps, I've never seen an adult shame an obese person I've been with in public, including my family members who can't fit properly into most restaurant chairs.

3. Smoking is outlawed in most public places in the USA, thankfully. Obesity is not outlawed. Laws to help fight obesity like the large cup law in NYC draw ire of many. Smoking is heavily taxed, food is not.

4. If you see someone smoking a single cigarette, it's not clear they are unhealthy and will die of lung cancer. If you see an obese person, they are almost certainly unhealthy.

5. TAG members complain about providers who smoke and their breath. Shops seem almost more likely to hide whether a girl is overweight than if she smokes.

BTW, I did read the thread you mentioned, but I don't quite remember exactly what was said. It would help all TAG members if you could be more clear about what you found objectionable. Was it just that the thread was almost all about her weight and that some people are into that but not the posters? Was something else objectionable?

 

[User#6517]

I posted in the thread earlier.. and two ladies seemed to have agreed with me. I was hoping more people would speak up about it, but like you mentioned, it didn't take long for the whole thread to be removed from public sight.

To be honest, it didn't surprise me at all. That wasn't the first time a male TAG member has made a negative comment about a girl's weight before. It happens often. People just usually ignore it and say nothing about it.

I understand that some men prefer slimmer women. I also understand that if a man chooses a certain provider based on her pictures, then ends up meeting a thicker version of her, that he will be disappointed.. but to make fat jokes and bash the woman's body? C'mon. That's immature, insensitive, and completely unnecessary.

On a positive note, Japan's pocchari movement is still going strong~ I bought some LaFarfa magazine issues weeks ago and love how they celebrate something different. I also like the fact that they use little to no "photoshop". ♡

 

[Wwanderer]

That's immature, insensitive, and completely unnecessary.

This.

But imo @MissInsomnia is putting it mildly here. I would add the adjectives "hurtful", "cruel" and and "psychologically sadistic" to her list.

The natural weight at which the multiple feedback loops in a person's body tries to keep them (in a variety ways) is set by a combination of genetics and their childhood diets, neither under their control. For example the obesity epidemic in the US is driven by a culture and a food industry that gives children way too much sugar and fats/carbs in their diets. However, it is often treated as a moral failing; overweight people are told that they are bad or worthless individuals. This shaming and stigmatization usually starts in childhood and produces adults with huge insecurities and low self esteem.

Those who have not been there can scarcely imagine the emotional pain involved for some people I suspect.

-Ww

 

[vargas]

I'd hope TAG members behave nicely to each other but I'm not a fan of censoring one's comments because they might possibly hurt the feelings of a third party or public figure who isn't present.

This is a place to discuss sexual topics and physical attraction is an important part of that. TAG members should be free to discuss what they find attractive or not.

Personally I find obesity not merely disagreeable but disgusting in a way that few other things are.

 

[User#6541]

@MissInsomnia , @User#16452 , @Wwanderer

I agree with you, in every single word. So much that I have nothing else to add.

But there is another important point that has not been mentioned so far, and I'm aware I might be risking my account or 'privileges' on this board, but meh.

I consider the fact that the thread was silently moved after @MissInsomnia's comment, an act of cowardliness.

Since the people involved in such comments were mostly well known on this board, the least I was expecting was a "sorry, you are right".
Because let's be real, the thread being moved was simply an escape route. It's easier to make something disappear than to face the mistake, huh ?

Sorry, I said act of cowardliness? I was short, let me add disrespect to that. Disrespect to a lady that was hurt.
Even if for the rest it was not 'a big deal', it was for her. And as far as I can tell, her comment did not break any rules.

I will finish with a public request for that thread to be restored to where it was originally, because removing it does not means it did not happen.

Voltaire or Ben Parker , I do not care, but those above me should behave at least twice the big.

 

[User#16452]

I'd hope TAG members behave nicely to each other but I'm not a fan of censoring one's comments because they might possibly hurt the feelings of a third party or public figure who isn't present.

This is a place to discuss sexual topics and physical attraction is an important part of that. TAG members should be free to discuss what they find attractive or not.

There's a polite way to say that something is "not your cup of tea" or even just not reply a thread. Making jokes is hardly an important part of discussing sexual attraction.

I did acknowledge in my post that the chances of the AV star reading the posts were very slim, but this did not mean that others with fuller figures could not be hurt as well.

Personally I find obesity not merely disagreeable but disgusting in a way that few other things are.

Mmm, I find comments like this quite disgusting.

What exactly offends you about them so much that you need be that extreme?

 

[vargas]

There's a polite way to say that something is "not your cup of tea" or even just not reply a thread. Making jokes is hardly an important part of discussing sexual attraction.

I did acknowledge in my post that the chances of the AV star reading the posts were very slim, but this did not mean that others with fuller figures could not be hurt as well.

Joking is a form of discussion, particularly amongst men and as I said people should be free to discuss whatever they want particularly if it's on topic. We shouldn't need to censor ourselves and only discuss the positive, never the negative.

TAG is pretty much the opposite of a "safe space", it's for adults and adult topics including plenty that is illegal and of questionable morality. If people can't handle possibly being offended they should leave, this is definitely not the place for that.

Mmm, I find comments like this quite disgusting.

What exactly offends you about them so much that you need be that extreme?

It hardly matters, the point is things that raise strong feelings tend to inspire discussion.

 

[User#16452]

Joking is a form of discussion, particularly amongst men and as I said people should be free to discuss whatever they want particularly if it's on topic. We shouldn't need to censor ourselves and only discuss the positive, never the negative.

TAG is pretty much the opposite of a "safe space", it's for adults and adult topics including plenty that is illegal and of questionable morality. If people can't handle possibly being offended they should leave, this is definitely not the place for that.

I'm sure women joke just as much in discussion...

I never said that anyone should be censored and this is never an idea I would promote. However it is worth considering that there is a nice way to something and a not so nice way to say something.

As escorting is a very looks based industry, let's keep in mind that overly critical comments can very easily be taken to heart. Saying that, I would find a thread focusing ridiculing the physical aspects of the "mongers" on the board equally inapproapriate.

This isn't a -chan board where being offended is expected, it's a forum for adults, as you say. I'd like to think that part of being an adult is having empathy for the feelings of others.

 

[vargas]

I never said that anyone should be censored and this is never an idea I would promote. However it is worth considering that there is a nice way to something and a not so nice way to say something.

Attempting to twist ones words in such a way that no one could ever be offended by them is a nasty form of self-censorship. Instead I'm
promoting more honest and plain speech.

As escorting is a very looks based industry, let's keep in mind that overly critical comments can very easily be taken to heart. Saying that, I would find a thread focusing ridiculing the physical aspects of the "mongers" on the board equally inapproapriate.

Wasn't the thread about a specific AV star, not members of TAG?

 

[zecarioca]

Being the one who actually created the mentioned thread, let me clarify first of all that it wasn't meant in any way to mock anyone on any basis. I posted a link to the [Redacted] webpage with the ad for the AV star girl, in case anyone might be interested. That was it.

Yes, a few posts later I laughed at a joke and translated my laughing into a "hahaha" reply, very automatically. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, and I apologize if I did.

 

[User#16452]

Attempting to twist ones words in such a way that no one could ever be offended by them is a nasty form of self-censorship. Instead I'm
promoting more honest and plain speech.

If you're honestly trying to use "free speech" as a right to say that you find overweight people "disgusting" then I really don't know what to say. Asking you to consider someone's feelings is not censorship and I have not said that there should be no weight comments at all. There is plenty of topics that are removed from TAG for being offensive, this isn't Speaker's Corner.

@MissInsomnia previously made a thread with an image showing body fat percentages and asked TAG-ers to reply with what they liked and disliked and I do not recall anyone being offended then as the subject was discussed maturely.

Wasn't the thread about a specific AV star, not members of TAG?

Even if it is very unlikely that the AV star would read this thread, an unwelcoming atmosphere to those with a fuller figure is not pleasant.

I did acknowledge in my post that the chances of the AV star reading the posts were very slim, but this did not mean that others with fuller figures could not be hurt as well.

 

[vargas]

If you're honestly trying to use "free speech" as a right to say that you find overweight people "disgusting" then I really don't know what to say. Asking you to consider someone's feelings is not censorship and I have not said that there should be no weight comments at all. There is plenty of topics that are removed from TAG for being offensive, this isn't Speaker's Corner.

I certainly do hope the TAG moderators and admins continue to allow members to express their thoughts and feelings honestly and directly without unnecessary self-censorship or politically correct wording. That's the sole reason I've continued to reply here.

My statement that I find obesity disgusting was not directed at a specific person and certainly not my fellow TAG members. If someone is hurt by that too bad.

 

[User#16452]

I certainly do hope the TAG moderators and admins continue to allow members to express their thoughts and feelings honestly and directly without unnecessary self-censorship or politically correct wording. That's the sole reason I've continued to reply here.

You'll be disappointed to know that some posts were removed when the thread was moved. I suggest you find a new forum to spread your "free speech".

My statement that I find obesity disgusting was not directed at a specific person and certainly not my fellow TAG members. If someone is hurt by that too bad.

I feel like you are missing the whole point of the thread here.

 

[TAG Manager]

You'll be disappointed to know that some posts were removed when the thread was moved. I suggest you find a new forum to spread your "free speech".

This is incorrect information; the thread was moved away intact, nothing was edited or modified after it was moved.

 

[TAG Manager]

We are restoring the thread back to it's original position in a few minutes. Due to the outcry of what some claim to be 'censorship' while in fact we were trying to remain sensitive. I guess we can't have it both ways.

As such, we will not honor any reports on this particular thread unless there is a risk of PII data posted.

Thanks.

 

[User#16452]

This is incorrect information; the thread was moved away intact, nothing was edited or modified after it was moved.

Shhh, we almost got rid of him!

But seriously, moving the thread but not editing it is a strange course of action to take in my opinion.

 

[TAG Manager]

But seriously, moving the thread but not editing it is a strange course of action to take in my opinion.

It was deemed the best course of action at the time of the decision. All management actions can't be liked by everyone. Appreciate your understanding.

Attached: Moderator log to document no other changes to the thread in question. I've only censored my IP addresses on each action as well as the name of a sub-forum that is not public.

 

[TAG Manager]

But there is another important point that has not been mentioned so far, and I'm aware I might be risking my account or 'privileges' on this board, but meh.

We don't disable or remove access unless there's an abuse of privilege (if any is granted) or reasons deemed harmful to users of this site.

 

[vargas]

We don't disable or remove access unless there's an abuse of privilege (if any is granted) or reasons deemed harmful to users of this site.

Cheers and thanks! I continue to be impressed at how well TAG is managed.

 

[TAG Manager]

Cheers and thanks! I continue to be impressed at how well TAG is managed.

Thank you.

No matter what we do... we still cannot please every single person and remain an open site.

 

[Wwanderer]

I'm not a fan of censoring one's comments because they might possibly hurt the feelings of a third party or public figure who isn't present.

As far as I can see, no one has suggested any censorship, not allowing you to express yourself as you wish about weight issues. That is a red herring and a strawman. Rather there was only a request that people try to be sensitive to other people's feelings. It is not a request that anyone is trying to compell you to honor.

Personally I find obesity not merely disagreeable but disgusting in a way that few other things are.

Personally I find it *extremely* disgusting when someone is knowingly indifferent to hurting other people emotionally, especially when little or nothing is to be gained by it. Imo such people have a major moral failing and character flaw.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

No matter what we do... we still cannot please every single person and remain an open site.

You should never have posted the above!



-Ww

 

[vargas]

As far as I can see, no one has suggested any censorship, not allowing you to express yourself as you wish about weight issues. That is a red herring and a strawman.

Come now, User#16452 explicitly said people shouldn't reply to a thread if it might hurt someone's feelings:

There's a polite way to say that something is "not your cup of tea" or even just not reply a thread.

Anyway I read the restored thread and this is a whole lot of ado about nothing.

 

[User#16452]

Come now, User#16452 explicitly said people shouldn't reply to a thread if it might hurt someone's feelings:

Actually, I suggested it as an option. Please do read what you quote!

To be more clear, I meant it in the context of the previous thread, i.e. where no opinions on the AV star's weight were necessary. If you are not interested in meeting this particular AV star then there is no reason for you to comment. Saying you find her unattractive for whatever reason serves no purpose.