Watch Yourself Out There

[John Chavers]

Here's to hoping some of our swingin' TAG members will escape the Tokyo police blotter:

Tokyo cops bust 23-person hotel orgy, arrest manager

"On Sunday, officers raided a room inside a hotel in the Tokyo area and discovered two male customers engaged in sexual acts with female employees."
​

 

[TAG Manager]

Why is this directed at Solong?

Please give me a valid reason, otherwise I'm removing the thread.

 

[Solong]

Here's to hoping...doesn't end up on the Tokyo police blotter:

Tokyo cops bust 23-person hotel orgy, arrest manager

"On Sunday, officers raided a room inside a hotel in the Tokyo area and discovered two male customers engaged in sexual acts with female employees."
​

The women involved were prostitutes. That's P4P, NOT true swinging, so I think a punter would be a bit more worried. Appears to be guys paying for an orgy-experience through a company that made arrangements.

Real Swingers do NOT pay women directly, as in prostitution, and don't usually have ratios like 17 males to 6 females, at hotel parties. It's usually a much smaller group of like-minded couples that swap. Like say 2 to 4 guys and 2 to 4 women. Such small numbers of people, don't attract excessive attention.

And that massive number of guys together in a hotel, likely caught a lot of attention. It appears the hotel staff ratted/told on the people in the party.

If not that, then the company hiring underage women or not paying taxes or protection money, is often what puts them on the radar.

To add insult to injury, the prostitutes that the company had working for them, all sold them out too. So without a doubt, they have the company head on prostitution charges, and they can't say it's simply sex or just a sex orgy.

 

[John Chavers]

The women involved were prostitutes

You have to wonder how many of the customers knew that...

 

[TAG Manager]

Thank you.

 

[Solong]

You have to wonder how many of the customers knew that...

They likely all knew, because they are paying a company, who are providing women they don't personally know.

And the company providing the orgy-experience appears dumb as hell. When you have that many guys in a room, you better be paying the hotel some side hush money or at least they are aware of what's up. The hotel can get pissed for not getting their cut of the action and breaking their occupants in a room policy.

 

[John Chavers]

So you're saying we don't need a kickstarter for the Solong legal defense fund?

 

[Solong]

So you're saying we don't need a kickstarter for the Solong legal defense fund?

I find your comments a bit disturbing. Which is surprising, as I usually like most of what you post. I vote for this thread to be removed too, per TAG management suggestion.

Considering all the direct punting, why target a swinger who is mainly a NON-punter? And your article is about a P4P bust, that has nothing whatsoever to do with me, and not truly about swinging. Why aren't you talking about all the punters and companies busted for prostitution/P4P?

Swinging, sex orgies, and Nampa/PUA are all LEGAL, by the way.

 

[Solong]

I feel compelled to add, that there is a HUGE difference between prostitution and sex orgies. One is about freedom of choice among consenting adults, the other is about sex for money.

Like-minded consenting adults (or swingers) coming together to enjoy sex behind close doors is arguably their natural right. Any form of policing and raids in such matters is arguably persecution, prudishness, and/or a violation of human rights.

And in the case of Japan this would be hypocrisy as well. Hypocrisy, because look at all the soaplands, happy ending massage parlors, fashion health, escort services, etc.. Any proper police force should never be wasting their time to persecute and harrass consenting adults in this way. There is murder, assualt, robbery, illegal drugs, and rape that they should be concerning themselves with.

And in the case of prostitution- The Prostitution Prevention Law, enacted in 1957, forbids- “intercourse with an unspecified person in exchange for payment.” To include soliciting by prostitutes and organized prostitution (PIMP style prostitution), such as operating brothels. Furthermore, ONLY VAGINAL sex is outlawed under Japan's anti-prostitution codes; not anal, oral, or by hand.

It's LEGAL to PAY to have sex with a "specified" person or acquaintance (sugarbabies (adult women) and independents are legal too), in Japan. There is no clear specified time in which you must know this acquaintance, however it should be clear that some time occurred for this to happen, and prior to sex. Thus Soaplands are allowed to legally operate. Add to this, that a soapland is NOT your home, but a place of business. You pay to enter the facility, but whatever happens between the customer and the worker is up to them. This is very similar to a Swinger/Happening bar. The people pay an entrance fee to a private club NOT open to the public (you must be a member). Whatever happens is up to the members, and not the business, NOR do they hire/pay prostitutes.

Usually, when police and prosecutors in Japan involve themselves in "sex", it's because of: pimping (business owner employing several prostitutes), disturbing the peace (often noise complaints), being in a truly open public space (like a park), underage people being involved, sex slavery, rape, or tax evasion.

 

[John Chavers]

The people pay an entrance fee to a private club NOT open to the public (you must be a member)

Isn't that what the article described? Just because they held their meetings in a hotel doesn't make it any less exclusive.

 

[Solong]

Isn't that what the article described? Just because they held their meetings in a hotel doesn't make it any less exclusive.

Hotels have occupancy rules. 23 people in 1 room (not for the purpose) will piss off just about every hotel. I know few hotels that wouldn't kick you all out or call the police, if they caught you.

For such a large group (more than 8 people), some hotels have huge suite rooms, and they expect you to pay $500 to $1,000 dollars. Hotels expect their cut of the action, and any club or group arranging a big party should have known this.

Hotels aren't all stupid either, they can have security and security cameras. They can possibly see and guess what's going on. That's why a club operating parties like that should make a deal with the hotel first. The hotel would then put them in a big room and be fine with it, or not "rat" the party group out.

Furthermore, the noise of such a large group can cause neighboring rooms to complain. The neighbors can see what is going on too or know the hotel policy, and call the police, just to be a-holes.

A private club, soapland, and a hotel are very different environments. To try to paint them as the same is disingenuous. Just about anybody can rent a room at a hotel, thus they are open to the public. Private clubs, soaplands, etc... can ban, bar, or deny entrance and to include only allowing members (thus NOT open to the general public).

 

[k1234k]

I think everyone here is missing the point.

The punters in both cases were free to go home. The only people arrested were the employees of the 'club'.

 

[Solong]

I think everyone here is missing the point.

The punters in both cases were free to go home. The only people arrested were the employees of the 'club'.

It was the hotel staff that contacted the police. I was addressing the source of how it became a problem.

After getting the complaint from the hotel, the police talked to the women from the party, who ratted on the company owner and admitted they were hired prostitutes. Thus the company owner falls under the definition of a pimp.

The situation of the hotel ratting out a customer can happen when they don't get a cut of the money. They found all those cum soaked rubbers, did the math, and got pissed.

Note- would have been smart for the people at the party to pick up all the condoms and throw them away themselves. Then the hotel staff wouldn't have found anything and not known.

This type of situation, involving hotels, is known to swingers. The solution is to get the PERMISSION of the hotel to have a large group party (some will allow it), and pay the extra charges or for the suite room (often $400 plus, but divided by 10 or more people, it's cheap).

The other element is if the women are NOT prostitutes, there is less likely to be a problem about sex. Sex isn't a crime and a natural function, though Japan appears to be failing at understanding this.

If the women are prostitutes, and all are working for and hired by the same company/person, this falls under pimping/anti-prostitution laws, and is illegal in Japan. Thus the company owner can possibly be in trouble. Futhermore, the women didn't know any of the men prior to the party (interpretation of unspecified from Japanese law) and were getting paid for sex, so arguably also violating Japan's anti-prostitution law.

IF the prostitutes didn't work for the same company/person (independents) and/or personally knew the men prior to the party (likely also a smaller party), arguably that would be LEGAL, under how Japan's laws are usually interpreted. It is legal to pay women that you KNOW for sex in Japan, and you are NOT having sex at a brothel or place that has the only purpose of prostitution.

The punters likely claimed they didn't know what was going on and that they paid for just a party (did NOT pay the women directly and the hotel is not a brothel, so legal for sex). Questionable, but very hard to prove otherwise, so were let go. And the focus was probably on the company that organized it, not the punters.

 

[John Chavers]

The punters in both cases were free to go home. The only people arrested were the employees of the 'club'.

This time.

 

[MacMackerson]

I love this quote from the article:

"According to Nippon News Network (March 2), the matter came to light after a hotel representative contacted police after “an unimaginable number of contraceptives” had been left behind in a room after an event in December"

Hello, police? Yes, I would like to report an unimaginable number of contraceptives.

 

[User#3673]

"Dano there are an unimaginable number of contraceptives here. Book him Dano!"

"Bonk him yourself McGarrett! I`m gonna have me some fun!"

"Frankly Captain it`s not logical to have such a huge number of contraceptives in a large room and no one using them."

"Shut up Spock, you wouldn`t know a good blow job if it slapped you across the face!"

 

[John Chavers]

@Solong, looks like I was right after all.

 

[Ladylisa]

Oh wow... It looks like a lot of happening bars have been busted lately.

That's 3 since summer.

 

[Solong]

@Solong, looks like I was right after all.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/1...les-can-no-longer-fall-back-on-the-sex-trade/

Right about what? You do know they are cracking down on prostitution? I'm not sure what your obsession is with swingers. As many bars have been running for 5, 10 years and more. And the issue can be more complicated than you know. Such as not paying taxes, prostitution, underage girls, etc... You should have the same fear about every delivery health and escort service.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/09/18/fukuoka-cops-bust-sex-club-tied-to-yakuza-for-prostitution/

Anyway, cracking down on people having sex privately, is partly why the Japanese are slowly dying off. Many young Japanese are afraid of sex. This terrible mentality, is that anything to do with sex is bad. Japan is simply destroying itself, with such. Instead of looking for murderers, robbers, rapists, etc... They are chasing down people having sex, indoors. Attempting to bust swingers and people enjoying sex in groups, is an attack on human rights itself.

 

[k1234k]

This is scary guys:

"Police also arrested seven of the 48 male and female customers (aged between 20 and 66) present at the time of the raid on the same charges (public indecency).

This is the first time I can recall that the CUSTOMERS (all consenting legal age adults) got arrested.

There must be a legal definition of 'Public space'.

Just make sure your dick stays in your pants if there are more than X number of people looking at you.

 

[Solong]

This is scary guys:

"Police also arrested seven of the 48 male and female customers (aged between 20 and 66) present at the time of the raid on the same charges (public indecency).

This is the first time I can recall that the CUSTOMERS (all consenting legal age adults) got arrested.

There must be a legal definition of 'Public space'.

Just make sure your dick stays in your pants if there are more than X number of people looking at you.

If that was true, then every Soapland in Japan should close down!

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/06/01/nishi-kawaguchi-soapland-busted-for-prostitution/

If a soapland isn't a public space, then a happening bar shouldn't be regarded as such either. However, you have sex prude cops and politicians, that instead of dealing with real crimes, they chase around consenting adults having sex. You have the same weird policing in the West at times too. The cops and politicians think it's easier and more fun, and you often find out that they are perverts themselves that are getting off on sexual oppression. It's an abuse of power and an attack on human rights, when you seek to persecute consenting adults in such a manner.

 

[Ladylisa]

There were customers arrested in a bust of a couple kissa in 2013 in Gotanda
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/10/21/tokyo-couples-cafe-gotanda-busted-allowing-sex-8-arrested/

It says that the manager and a staff member were arrested for public indecency charges and then that:

"Upon entering the establishment, termed a “couples cafe,” officers discovered three couples to be fully nude and engaged in sexual intercourse. The same charges were also filed against the six participants"

I remembered that clearly because of the customers being arrested.

I guess they are trying to shut down happening bars and couple kissa - perhaps as a kind of way of cleaning up their international image.

if they start arresting customers then they will stay away and the bars will lose business.

Just ridiculous.

Unfortunately it's working for me. I was planning to go in a couple of days, but this has made me very nervous because it would be disastrous for me (and my FWB) to get arrested in a Happening Bar.

 

[Solong]

There were customers arrested in a bust of a couple kissa in 2013 in Gotanda
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/10/21/tokyo-couples-cafe-gotanda-busted-allowing-sex-8-arrested/

It says that the manager and a staff member were arrested for public indecency charges and then that:

"Upon entering the establishment, termed a “couples cafe,” officers discovered three couples to be fully nude and engaged in sexual intercourse. The same charges were also filed against the six participants"

I remembered that clearly because of the customers being arrested.

I guess they are trying to shut down happening bars and couple kissa - perhaps as a kind of way of cleaning up their international image.

if they start arresting customers then they will stay away and the bars will lose business.

Just ridiculous.

Unfortunately it's working for me. I was planning to go in a couple of days, but this has made me very nervous because it would be disastrous for me (and my FWB) to get arrested in a Happening Bar.

As mentioned, there is usually a lot more to the story than you can realize. There are happening bars that have been open for 10 years and running.

For example, it's technically illegal for discos to be open past 12am midnight and there can be no dancing. Yes, night clubs after midnight are illegal in Japan. Should you panic? Or did you notice that Roppongi and Shibuya clubs are still dancing and partying hard after midnight.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2013/05/2...-japanese-laws-that-make-dance-clubs-illegal/

Laws can be selectively enforced, for various reasons that are not so obvious or contrary to what was reported, against a particular club or establishment. And there are legal gray areas, where enforcement depends on the police in that city. If the police wanted to shut down every Soapland, every night club, or every happening bar everywhere than they would have already done so. It's often that old and out-dated weird or ultra-conservative laws are usually ignored, and then selectively used, when convenient against a particular owner or club. It might be he didn't pay the right people, didn't pay his taxes, or was doing something else like hiring underage girls.

If you aren't worried about being raided while dancing at a club in Roppongi, then you shouldn't worry about such when you are at a Soapland or Happening Bar. And if you are, then lock the doors of your room and hide in fear under the covers, but that's a sad way to live. Dancing and sex, shouldn't be what you are afraid of. You just have to remember there are some backwards prudes out there that want to destroy basic human rights and fun.

 

[Sudsy]

For example, it's technically illegal for discos to be open past 12am midnight and there can be no dancing.

Actually, that law was repealed, for the same reason that they're turning up the heat on couples kissa and happening bars - the 2020 Olympics.

 

[Solong]

Actually, that law was repealed, for the same reason that they're turning up the heat on couples kissa and happening bars - the 2020 Olympics.

The Japanese law against dancing after midnight has NOT been repealed yet. It's still illegal.

It's under consideration and might be repealed in June of this year. And they still put a "twist" in the law, so police can crack down on clubs for low lighting.

These crackdowns, are usually scams in themselves. Where instead of doing real police work like going after murderers, robbers, drug dealers, gangs, etc... They are old-fashioned prudes pretending to protect from things that are of no threat or importance. Raiding a dance club or breaking into a private club where consenting adults are having sex, is of no value to the public whatsoever.

Clubs in Roppongi, Shibuya, etc... are still technically in violation of this old archaic law, that's randomly enforced. Not only dance clubs, but various dance schools (yes, even dance schools) in Japan are technically in violation, and have been in fear of being raided and closed down.

So you should perhaps stop dancing too, in addition to stop enjoying sexual fun in Japan. Nothing would make an old backwards prude happier. Rather you overwork yourself to death or commit suicide.

And they are not turning up the "heat" on Happening Bars and Couple Kissas specifically. Their "turning up the heat" is equal to all P4P, soaplands, delivery health, escorts, etc... across the board.

The average tourist has NO idea of such private member clubs, couldn't find them, NOR get membership in one. You are also talking about private clubs, in which a tourist walking down the street would have no idea whatsoever about such.

Most tourists are NOT swingers. It's disingenuous to act like the majority of tourists coming to Japan are into such, even in their home countries. Far more tourists would be heading towards prostitutes, at something like 1,000 to 1 or more.

The average tourist is far more likely to have access to regular P4P, like escorts and delivery health. And is far more likely to know about and visit a soapland, Chinese woman soliciting on the street corner, or an escort.