Watch Yourself Out There

[just4fun]

One of my favorite BJ's of all time was in a Ferris wheel. High five!

I've taken that ride myself.....more than once in fact .

 

[Solong]

@Solong

I feel for you, because I know it's your thing, but your example article of Soaplands doesn't apply, as the customers were not arrested. Only management was.

The point I am making is that it appears happening bars are the ONLY adult play business where 'normal' customers are getting arrested.

That is what concerns me.

So from a customer point of view, it's 'safe' to go to a soapland, deli health, pink salon, or fashion health, because EVERY bust of those establishments focused only on management (unless it was clearly a pedophile situation)

But, if you go to a happening bar, in the very unlikely chance it's raided, you will get arrested if you've got your junk hanging out.

That's not always true. Customers in prostitution situations do get arrested, if caught in the act. However, many raids on places of prostitution are done specifically for the management (pimping violations). Prostitution rings tend to be spread out over a wide location, as they interact with multiple customers or the company owner isn't on the premise. The logistical differences, reflect what the police are doing.

Japanese prostitution laws are also complicated. You can pay to have sex with somebody you know. It's however illegal: to have paid sex with somebody you don't know (very tricky definition), to be a pimp (manager of prostitutes), or run a place that is specifically for prostitution. So making charges stick against customers of prostitution is difficult, unless they get them to confess (Japanese police can hold you for 20 days with no lawyer) their purpose or catch them in some other violation (like with underage girls).

As mentioned, all happening bars are NOT raided. Many have run 10 years and more without incident. Specific happening bars are singled out for various reasons. Like opening in a location where they are unwanted.

Happening Bars are also legal. They are fundamentally a bar, and that's important to be understood.

This is different from organized prostitution. Like a fashion health club, deliver health, or escort service company, that can be violating the laws on pimping or a place of prostitution. The police can simply collect evidence, from even a distance, to declare it illegal.

The situation is much more different and very difficult for police to make a case against a happening bar. So they resort to catching people in the act, like a kind of crazy mindless sex police. Catching people in the act, is their proof that the place isn't a regular bar.

Even in this regard, there is legal gray area and some precedent, that the bar isn't responsible for the activities of the customers. This has been argued successfully by soaplands. Think of a dance club, where a couple had sex in the bathroom. Do you hold the dance club accountable, and arrest the manager or bar tender, for the acts of individual customers? Furthermore, if a happening bar is a locked private memeber club, then it's NOT open to the public. Raiding locked door hotel rooms and private clubs over consenting adult sex is also very legally questionable police behavior that is being challenged in courts and as a matter of policy in various districts.

As also mentioned, this is fake and scam police work, for political purposes and to pretend to be doing something important when they aren't. Breaking down locked doors to see if people are having consenting adult group sex, means they are wasting taxpayer money and resources. There is often prudishness and political trickery behind such sham police raids that are of no benefit.

 

[Tokyo1]

One of my favorite BJ's of all time was in a Ferris wheel. High five!

I also got a bj in the Ferris wheel in Odaiba (Daikanransha) was about 8 years ago..

 

[TheDutchElm]

I suddenly got a mental image of everyone on TAG showing up anonymously to the daiba ferris wheel with a date to set the record for "number of people blowing / getting blown on a ferris wheel simultaneously".

 

[Ladylisa]

I suddenly got a mental image of everyone on TAG showing up anonymously to the daiba ferris wheel with a date to set the record for "number of people blowing / getting blown on a ferris wheel simultaneously".

Haha... Love it

Hmmm... I think I'm more likely to be getting blown on the Yokohama one though
That's where it happened before and both of my current FWBs (who are interested in giving it a try) are Yokohama based.

Hmm... Can I say "getting blown"? ... Well you know what I mean.

I do hope this is an equal opportunity Ferris Wheel sexual record

 

[TheDutchElm]

Hmm... Can I say "getting blown"? ... Well you know what I mean.

I do hope this is an equal opportunity Ferris Wheel sexual record

That attitude is probably more than enough to get you several date invites to my fantastical Ferris wheel event.

 

[Ladylisa]

That attitude is probably more than enough to get you several date invites to my fantastical Ferris wheel event.

Haha... Well I quite seriously discussed the possibility of Ferris Wheel fun just last week, so I think I could scrounge up a date or 2

 

[TAG Manager]

Haha... Well I quite seriously discussed the possibility of Ferris Wheel fun just last week, so I think I could scrounge up a date or 2

lol, 'Group Date'.

 

[Sudsy]

The Japanese law against dancing after midnight has NOT been repealed yet. It's still illegal.

It's under consideration and might be repealed in June of this year. And they still put a "twist" in the law, so police can crack down on clubs for low lighting.

I stand corrected - the changes to the law were approved a couple weeks ago, so a formal passing should be a formality at this stage, and it should be enacted this summer. The lighting thing isn't that big a deal - they're just requiring 10 lux... which as around what most bars and clubs keep their lighting at anyhow. Much darker than that and you'll have trouble walking around.

And they are not turning up the "heat" on Happening Bars and Couple Kissas specifically. Their "turning up the heat" is equal to all P4P, soaplands, delivery health, escorts, etc... across the board.

Whoa there... I didn't say that HB and CK were the only target. I just said that it was part of the overall Tokyo 2020 cleanup (Disneyland-ing, as someone above put it) that's kicking into higher gear. No need to get riled up.

 

[Solong]

I stand corrected - the changes to the law were approved a couple weeks ago, so a formal passing should be a formality at this stage, and it should be enacted this summer. The lighting thing isn't that big a deal - they're just requiring 10 lux... which as around what most bars and clubs keep their lighting at anyhow. Much darker than that and you'll have trouble walking around.



Whoa there... I didn't say that HB and CK were the only target. I just said that it was part of the overall Tokyo 2020 cleanup (Disneyland-ing, as someone above put it) that's kicking into higher gear. No need to get riled up.

Dancing after midnight is still illegal. The law hasn't been repealed yet, and who knows what might happen, until it's official. There are Japanese conservative groups against changing the law.

The lighting twist into the new law is still arguably an excuse for the police to arbitrarily raid clubs whenever they want to. They can use it as an excuse to harass or look for something else.

 

[Ladylisa]

I just said that it was part of the overall Tokyo 2020 cleanup (Disneyland-ing, as someone above put it) that's kicking into higher gear.

That was me
My cynical view of it is that it's part of changing how the foreign media sees Japan - especially the "weird Japan" stuff.

@Solong - I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it's crap, and that the Japanese police should have better things to do that use their resources to bust people having consensual sex - but the reality is that it's happening, and I for one want to try and figure out exactly what it means and what the consequences could mean for me.

So how about we leave the hysteria behind and concentrate on the facts, and try and figure out what it means in the big picture.

Yes, you aren't guaranteed to get arrested every time you go to a Happening Bar, but it seems to me that the rate of busts is escalating. I just spent some time scouring the internet and came up with a list of Happening Bar busts (leaving out the orgy /semi p4p busts and a bust of Happening Bar customers on a tour bus)

This is from most recent to the earliest I can find:


March 2015
Dark Night
Ueno
10 arrested - 2 management and 8 customers
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/03/17/tokyo-cops-bust-ueno-happening-bar-for-sex-10-arrested/

November 2014
Club 406
Shinjuku (Yotsuya?)
Only manager arrested it seems
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/11/12/tokyo-cops-bust-shinjuku-happening-bar/

May 2014
Kun Kun
Ueno
7 arrested - manager and 2 employees, 4 customers
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/0...-happening-bar-on-obscenity-charges-arrest-7/

October 2013
Ryu's Cafe
Gotanda
8 arrested - 2 management, 6 customers
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/1...anda-busted-allowing-sex-8-arrested/#comments

October 2011
Roppongi Jail
Manager and female customer arrested
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2011/0...roppongi-sm-bar-busted-for-indecent-exposure/

Hmm... I also found info on a bust at Roppongi Jail in March 2011 where 4 (inc 2 customers) were arrested
http://smdetective.blog126.fc2.com/blog-entry-116.html

September 2006
Le Grande Blue
11 arrested for public indecency, 3 foreigners among them
http://thisreporter.blogspot.jp/2006_01_05_archive.html?m=1

2004
Rock
The infamous chocoball incident
2 porn stars arrested
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happening_bar


Edit: In aprox 2010/2011 (I don't remember clearly) I also saw posts on Gaijinpot from some guys who had been at Silk when it was raided. I haven't found any reports to confirm that and the source was dubious, so I won't list that unless it can be confirmed.
Extra edit: They got into a fight somewhere else after going to the Silk Sayonara party http://forum.gaijinpot.com/forum/living-in-japan/relationships/87240-naturist-club-silk/page3

 

[John Chavers]

Happening Bars are also legal. They are fundamentally a bar, and that's important to be understood.

Even in this regard, there is legal gray area and some precedent, that the bar isn't responsible for the activities of the customers

飲酒運転有罪判決？

Think of a dance club, where a couple had sex in the bathroom. Do you hold the dance club accountable, and arrest the manager or bar tender, for the acts of individual customers? Furthermore, if a happening bar is a locked private memeber club, then it's NOT open to the public. Raiding locked door hotel rooms and private clubs over consenting adult sex is also very legally questionable police behavior that is being challenged in courts and as a matter of policy in various districts

 

[Solong]

That was me
My cynical view of it is that it's part of changing how the foreign media sees Japan - especially the "weird Japan" stuff.

@Solong - I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it's crap, and that the Japanese police should have better things to do that use their resources to bust people having consensual sex - but the reality is that it's happening, and I for one want to try and figure out exactly what it means and what the consequences could mean for me.

So how about we leave the hysteria behind and concentrate on the facts, and try and figure out what it means in the big picture.

Yes, you aren't guaranteed to get arrested every time you go to a Happening Bar, but it seems to me that the rate of busts is escalating. I just spent some time scouring the internet and came up with a list of Happening Bar busts (leaving out the orgy /semi p4p busts and a bust of Happening Bar customers on a tour bus)

This is from most recent to the earliest I can find:


March 2015
Dark Night
Ueno
10 arrested - 2 management and 8 customers
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2015/03/17/tokyo-cops-bust-ueno-happening-bar-for-sex-10-arrested/

November 2014
Club 406
Shinjuku (Yotsuya?)
Only manager arrested it seems
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/11/12/tokyo-cops-bust-shinjuku-happening-bar/

May 2014
Kun Kun
Ueno
7 arrested - manager and 2 employees, 4 customers
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/0...-happening-bar-on-obscenity-charges-arrest-7/

October 2013
Ryu's Cafe
Gotanda
8 arrested - 2 management, 6 customers
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2013/1...anda-busted-allowing-sex-8-arrested/#comments

October 2011
Roppongi Jail
Manager and female customer arrested
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2011/0...roppongi-sm-bar-busted-for-indecent-exposure/

Hmm... I also found info on a bust at Roppongi Jail in March 2011 where 4 (inc 2 customers) were arrested
http://smdetective.blog126.fc2.com/blog-entry-116.html

September 2006
Le Grande Blue
11 arrested for public indecency, 3 foreigners among them
http://thisreporter.blogspot.jp/2006_01_05_archive.html?m=1

2004
Rock
The infamous chocoball incident
2 porn stars arrested
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happening_bar


Edit: In aprox 2010/2011 (I don't remember clearly) I also saw posts on Gaijinpot from some guys who had been at Silk when it was raided. I haven't found any reports to confirm that and the source was dubious, so I won't list that unless it can be confirmed.
Extra edit: They got into a fight somewhere else after going to the Silk Sayonara party http://forum.gaijinpot.com/forum/living-in-japan/relationships/87240-naturist-club-silk/page3

Bust and raids are done all the time. There is no increase, just you are more aware, based on your fears and specific interest.

Soaplands, prostitution rings, date cafes, dance clubs/discos are raided and busted all the time. So are even pachinko parlors.

Are you afraid to go dancing in Roppongi? Clearly many here have no fear of soaplands or fashion health, and did you notice there are raids on those?

People are letting their paranoia and focus on swinging get the best of them. There are hundreds of happening bars, couple kissas, fetish bars, and S&M bars in Japan.

Happening bars, and similar, have run many years. You are not understanding the bigger point, that they all would be closed, if that was a true national agenda or police priority. That a bar is singled out, can be for many reasons you are not aware of.

 

[Solong]

@ John Chavers

How legal is prostitution in Japan?

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Solong]

飲酒運転有罪判決？



View attachment 445

飲酒運転有罪判決？

And do we sue the car manufacturer, because a driver of a particular type of car got drunk and drove?

That drunk driver had a Ford Escort. Shall we arrest the president of Ford Motor Company?

That couple had sex in the dance club bathroom, shall we arrest the club owner too?

 

[Ladylisa]

Bust and raids are done all the time. There is no increase, just you are more aware, based on your fears and specific interest.

Soaplands, prostitution rings, date cafes, dance clubs/discos are raided and busted all the time. So are even pachinko parlors.

Are you afraid to go dancing in Roppongi? Clearly many here have no fear of soaplands or fashion health, and did you notice there are raids on those?

People are letting their paranoia and focus on swinging get the best of them. There are hundreds of happening bars, couple kissas, fetish bars, and S&M bars in Japan.

Happening bars, and similar, have run many years. You are not understanding the bigger point, that they all would be closed, if that was a true national agenda or police priority. That a bar is singled out, can be for many reasons you are not aware of.

Well I for one have no interest in P4P, and it's not what I'm talking about.
I'm not a guy who is going to P4P despite any risks, I am a woman who is trying to work out what the risks are with happening bars.
Keep me out of your arguments with other posters.

I'm not arguing against Happening Bars or suggesting that it's better to pay for it instead, or that puritanical measure are right. God no! I like Happening Bars. I've had a lot of fun at Happening Bars.

My interest in Happening Bars is not new. I was going 5 years ago.
And over the last 5 years even though I wasn't going I was still aware of any news related to them.

I've collected the information I can find and it does seem like there have been more busts recently. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I do realise that if they wanted to close them all down they would, but it looks like they want to be seen to be doing something... The question is what and how far does it extend.

Are they "cleaning up" various areas?
Are they trying to scare customers off over the board?

 

[Solong]

Well I for one have no interest in P4P, and it's not what I'm talking about.
I'm not a guy who is going to P4P despite any risks, I am a woman who is trying to work out what the risks are with happening bars.
Keep me out of your arguments with other posters.

My interest in Happening Bars is not new. I was going 5 years ago.
And over the last 5 years even though I wasn't going I was still aware of any news related to them.

I've collected the information I can find and it does seem like there have been more busts recently. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I do realise that if they wanted to close them all down they would, but it looks like they want to be seen to be doing something... The question is what and how far does it extend.

Are they "cleaning up" various areas?
Are they trying to scare customers off over the board?

I think your paranoia, combined with interest is getting the best of you. You are asking questions of a range nobody can answer unless you interviewed the chief of police, and even he may not give you a straight answer.

I mentioned several times that there are numerous happening bars that have never been raided and have existed for many years. If that's not comforting, nothing else can be. Nobody can give you guarantees. There is no guarantee we will even be alive tomorrow or next week.

I like you Ladylisa (based on the adventurous spirit you show) and have the greatest respect for my swinger sisters, but if your fear has got the best of you, then you can stay home. You can also do home, hotel, or ferris wheel sex orgies too. Just watch out for the Japanese Sex Police trying to handcuff a penis or tape up a vagina. Even if you don't come, the happening bars and swingers going to them will continue.

 

[Ladylisa]

I think your paranoia, combined with interest is getting the best of you. You are asking questions of a range nobody can answer unless you interviewed the chief of police, and even he may not give you straight answer.

I mentioned several times that there are numerous happening bars that have never been raided and have existed for many years. If that's not comforting, nothing else can be. Nobody can give you guarantees. There is no guarantee we will even be alive tomorrow or bext week.

I like you Ladylisa (based on the adventurous spirit you show) and have the greatest respect for my swinger sisters, but if your fear has got the best of you, then you can stay home. However the happening bars and swingers will continue.

Well of course - but if I can figure out how best to reduce risks then I will.

And yes the chief of police probably wouldn't give a straight answer - but maybe we can look at what is happening and figure it out a bit.

Yes... And I know that's my own personal decision whether to take the risk or not - whether to stay home or try to figure out where it's better to go to.

I sure as hell wouldn't go to Ueno. That's 2 there in just a few months. I wonder if that's because of Ueno as a transport hub/ tourist place and bowing to pressure to clean it up.
I wonder if that will also apply to all the action at Uguisidani or if it's out of sight out of mind enough.

And I know that there's been some talk of a clean up of P4P establishment that is happening in Kabukicho. There was one happening bar busted there too. I'd be wary about going there too I think.

I actually feel better now I've looked at it more clearly. I can't avoid the risk completely, but I can think about how to reduce it.

 

[Solong]

Well of course - but if I can figure out how best to reduce risks then I will.

And yes the chief of police probably wouldn't give a straight answer - but maybe we can figure it out a bit.

Yes... And I know that's my own personal decision whether to take the risk or not - whether to stay home or try to figure out where it's better to go to.

I sure as hell wouldn't go to Ueno. That's 2 there in just a few months. I wonder if that's because of Ueno as a transport hub/ tourist place and bowing to pressure to clean it up.
I wonder if that will also apply to all the action at Uguisidani or if it's out of sight out of mind enough.

And I know that there's been some talk of a clean up of P4P establishment that is happening in Kabukicho. There was one happening bar busted there too.

I actually feel better now I've looked at it more clearly. I can't avoid the risk completely, but I can think about how to reduce it.

And I agree with the opinion about location. New happening bars can run into trouble with prudish locals, locals can complain about the number of people coming into a particular place, or there is a change of politicians. There can be lots of politics involved and in the background.

And various happening bar owners don't take their perceived rights and freedoms being railroaded lightly. A raid or bust will not discourage them. They can be committed and true swingers that will fight legally and/or will open up a new bar elsewhere. Many feel infringing on consenting adult sexuality in such a draconian manner is ethically wrong.

 

[Ladylisa]

And I agree with the opinion about location. New happening bars can run into trouble with prudish locals, locals can complain about the number of people coming into a particular place, or there is a change of politicians. There can be lots of politics involved and in the background.

And various happening bar owners don't take their perceived rights and freedoms being railroaded lightly. A raid or bust will not discourage them. They can be committed and true swingers that will fight legally and/or will open up a new bar elsewhere. Many feel infringing on consenting adult sexuality in such a draconian manner is ethically wrong.

It's all location and politics I'm sure.
But I think there's a good chance that the politics about location has been ramped up in the lead up to the Olympics.
Here's an article about fuzoku clean up (including one of the Happening bars that was busted.

Tokyo Sex Trade Preparing for an Olympic Crackdown-a-thon

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/11/13/tokyo-sex-trade-preparing-for-olympic-crackdown-a-thon/

It isn't fair if happening bars are included in the crack down/clean up - but it seems to be the way it is.

 

[Solong]

It's all location and politics I'm sure.
But I think there's a good chance that the politics about location has been ramped up in the lead up to the Olympics.
Here's an article about fuzoku clean up (including one of the Happening bars that was busted.

Tokyo Sex Trade Preparing for an Olympic Crackdown-a-thon

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/11/13/tokyo-sex-trade-preparing-for-olympic-crackdown-a-thon/

It isn't fair if happening bars are included in the crack down/clean up - but it seems to be the way it is.

The media, and the Tokyo Reporter, can take a skewed sensationalized perspective on what's really going on. So we have to be careful about absorbing what they say wholesale.

Tourists wouldn't know of, not be allowed in many places, nor meet language requirements. You are talking about clubs that even the average Japanese person doesn't know exist.

And when it comes to swinger, fetish, and S&M clubs, those are often for a specific taste. The average tourist or person isn't even interested in going to those. They will go to regular prostitutes at 1,000 to 1 levels. Focusing on locked door private clubs is ridiculous. You should raid people's homes in that case, it's about the same. People are more likely to go to neon sign stores with pictures of naked women and to pimps and prostitutes soliciting people directly on the street.

A lot of this is political hysteria, paranoia about national image, and politicians and police trying create or solve a fake problem in order to pretend they have accomplished something. Just a distraction for political points and games.

 

[TheDutchElm]

 

[Ladylisa]

A lot of this is political hysteria, paranoia about national image, and politicians and police trying create or solve a fake problem in order to pretend they have accomplished something. Just a distraction for political points and games.

That's what all of us are saying, and have been saying all along.

I mentioned that about national image a few pages back.

What all remains is to try to read between the lines and figure out what that cure to the fake problem will entail so as to be best prepared to avoid getting caught by it.

 

[Ladylisa]

For fucks sake @Solong - of course it's ridiculous to focus on locked door private clubs with consenting adults.
We get it - and we all agree.

But when has being ridiculous and stupid and unfair ever stopped the Japanese government or police?

 

[Solong]

For fucks sake @Solong - of course it's ridiculous to focus on locked door private clubs with consenting adults.
We get it - and we all agree.

But when has being ridiculous and stupid and unfair ever stopped the Japanese government or police?

I didn't create this topic and simply respond to posts in it. I voted for the entire thread to be removed from the beginning.
[emoji48]