Would you BBFS?

[Wwanderer]

was speaking for myself. I will not be running to the next best escort.

Obviously I have no quarrel at all with such a personal decision. Many, maybe even most, people are never involved in p4p in any form at all and have perfectly fine lives. It is not a something "no one should miss". Also obviously no one should do something as recreation if it makes them personally so fearful or otherwise uncomfortable that they don't enjoy it. All of us have imperfect control over our fears at best; if p4p and STDs in general scare you so much that you prefer celibacy, there may be nothing you can (easily) do about it. In that sense, you have my sympathy.

However, I will dispute blatantly false claims such as these:

Sooner or later this mixing of secretions is going to lead to something that I don't want.

The dangers are so great now that mongering of any type is actually suicide.

which you make, apparently to rationalize your fears. If those statements were true, I'd also be advising people to avoid p4p, but they simply aren't. Almost all mongers and sex workers eventually die of causes other than STDs and mostly of causes unrelated to sex work (namely of the same things that kill people not involved in p4p). So, it isn't "actually suicide"...just isn't. Similarly, lots and lots of active mongers and long term sex workers who behave with reasonable care never contract any serious (incurable) STD and many never get any STD at all. In fact I am one of the latter group after more than 40 years of mongering (with lots of BBBJs and some BBFS too)...much longer than most guys stay active in p4p. So, it is not actually a "sooner or later" thing at all in reality.

on the other hand, can you say that it is 100 percent safe to do P4P?

100 percent safe??? No, of course it isn't 100 percent safe; that would be an insane claim. Neither is getting out of bed or eating a meal or walking down the street (much less up/down a flight of stairs) or having a drink etc. Could you name *any* even mildly interesting life activity that is "100 percent safe"? Again, valar morghulis... *My* personal view is that I fear missing great experiences in life more than I fear my life's inevitable end from one cause or another.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

For those who enjoy worrying, and many do, here's some real life worry fodder:

http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/Top_10_Causes_of_Death_in_Japan_2015

For comparison, the WHO reports that there are less than 50 deaths per year attributed to HIV in Japan and that only about 1 person in 10,000 in Japan is infected with HIV, mostly homosexual men and intravenous drug users.

-Ww

 

[dreams]

can you say that it is 100 percent safe to do P4P?

Who suggested that?
Even staying in bed (alone) all day is not 100% safe ( earhquake, gas explosion...)
What Wv, and many of us, say, is that P4P is not necessarily more dangerous then driving on a motorway to go on holiday...

 

[dreams]

Absolutely! Harddrugs users (who often have to do prostitution to finance the habits) and mongering in certain countries are probably your biggest risks if you are a straight monger.


.
As for other diseases, they are either curable or harmless. Nobody wants to get them, and i would be very shocked if i got one and it would be bad for me to have to take time off until its totally cured, but its not something that actually ruins your life.

Alice, I would just slightly qualify your last statement: For those in a steady sexual relationship that they wish to keep, getting an STD, even treatable, is a problem: How to either tell your partner to get treated, or how to explain that you do not want sex for a while?.. In extreme cases, it may ruin lifes if this lead to a stupid break-up/divorce... ( I accept in advance the argument that if this is enough to break up a marriage, it means that the relationship was already badly damaged...)
That was my fear though when was in this situation, and I took appropriate measures at the time.
Thinkng back 40+ years of P4P, I cannot imagine what I would have lost if I had nor done it to the extent I did it. Meting 1000+ women of all shapes, races, conditions has considerably enriched my life. That s definitively worth the slight inconvenience of occasionnal treatble STDs...

 

[SugoiBoy]

Some SPs seem to prefer BB simply because men cum faster that way.

So, it's a shortcut for them.

 

[Kulbutor]

Elsewhere, in the west, with a known provider, probably yes...

Surnatural!

 

[Kulbutor]

is that P4P is not necessarily more dangerous then driving on a motorway to go on holiday...

Hallucinating!

 

[dreams]

Hallucinating!

Please elaborate...or rather no, leave it there...

 

[Kulbutor]

You cant compare performing sex without protection with a simple trip on motorway man...

Unless you drive when you are totally drunk, in this case i should understand, and in this case you should not play with your life...Only...

Yeah man, what you think and what you wrote, its crazy, HIV is just a legend for you ?

I mean on a "sex" advices forum like this one, harm reduction should be a duty!

I just hope some weak minded or young immature dudes could not read you.

 

[Kulbutor]

Meting 1000+ women of all shapes, races, conditions has considerably enriched my life. That s definitively worth the slight inconvenience of occasionnal treatble STDs...

yeah, Your life...All is said.

 

[dreams]

Yeah, my life indeed.

Threadxit as I now often use. No need to discuss this further here.... Bye..

 

[Mischa Maxwell]

This is just anecdotal, but one’s generation seems to play a role here at least among American punters. Several older hobbyists that I know like to go raw even with pros. They all happen to be baby boomers. None of them are based in Japan.

By contrast, as a member of Generation X, I grew up with the specter of HIV/AIDS. That made me more careful.

I would agree with this sentiment. I recently went 'undercover' (posing as a bored young Australian housewife) on the website Ashley Madison.

I was specifically 'looking for' men aged 50+. When I got to chatting with 3 or 4 of them, they assured me that if we became intimate, we wouldn't need condoms. They had had vasectomies, couldn't stay hard in a condom, had very few sexual partners, etc. They weren't even open to the idea of using condoms.

The funny thing is that with a bit of investigation, I discovered that most of these men had slept with at least 2 girls from the site already. I wonder if they used the same anti-condom arguments on them...

If you have a SO, you have a responsibility to practise safe sex. It's not optional. That's what these men didn't get.

 

[MikeH]

You cant compare performing sex without protection with a simple trip on motorway man...

Well, then it's good nobody did. The comparison was between having sex and driving at the freeway. Both can be done dangerously or responsibly.

 

[Kulbutor]

Well, then it's good nobody did. The comparison was between having sex and driving at the freeway. Both can be done dangerously or responsibly.

But i understood... If you like to drive "dangerously", go alone on a circuit, and not with a gf on a freeway

 

[Kulbutor]

I was specifically 'looking for' men aged 50+. When I got to chatting with 3 or 4 of them, they assured me that if we became intimate, we wouldn't need condoms.

At their age, there is nothing really interesting to loose... in their future, you see what i mean.

And i bet that in their 30s, they did speak differently.

Thats confirm what i read before, its just a selfish reasoning...

 

[Wwanderer]

What Wv, and many of us, say, is that P4P is not necessarily more dangerous then driving on a motorway to go on holiday...

It is waaaaaay less dangerous...even if you are a careful driver. "You can look it up", as they say.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

You cant compare performing sex without protection with a simple trip on motorway man...

Unless you drive when you are totally drunk, in this case i should understand, and in this case you should not play with your life...Only...

Yeah man, what you think and what you wrote, its crazy, HIV is just a legend for you ?

I mean on a "sex" advices forum like this one, harm reduction should be a duty!

I just hope some weak minded or young immature dudes could not read you.

What silliness!

HIV kills less than ten heterosexual people per year in Japan, and quite likely none of them caught it via p4p. In the context of p4p in Japan, HIV might as well be a legend. Try to back up your claims with some facts, perhaps? Maybe you'd like to look up how many are killed while driving sober.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Well, then it's good nobody did. The comparison was between having sex and driving at the freeway. Both can be done dangerously or responsibly.

And responsible driving kills more than reckless/dangerous sex, I'd bet.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

It is waaaaaay less dangerous...even if you are a careful driver. "You can look it up", as they say.

-Ww

Exactly. I see where the sentiment is comming from. We all grew up with a super fearmongering sex education.
I am from a country that is thought to have realistic sex education (much more informing than the "dont have sex, you'll die" American approach or the "dont mention it" japanese approach) but i grew up thinking that if you gave a someone a bbj you had like 50% chance of getting aids.
They tell you exactly how dangerous things are but not how much change there is you'll get them.

Even if you drive SAFE there is a real chance of getting a car accident. Someone else can drive unsafe and be the cause of it. Or you get distracted for a second and it happens.
Its pretty rare to even encounter someone with the hiv virus, let alone contract it.

I'm not saying "lets all bareback" but all the irrational fear about std is super harmful for the image of sexworkers in society. Yes, in the middle ages like half of us got syffilis and infected a lot of people and died a miserable death but those times are long gone in developped countries.

 

[Wwanderer]

all the irrational fear about std is super harmful for the image of sexworkers in society.

Indeed so, and not only that. Irrational fears of many things, not just STDs, are not only unpleasant in themselves to experience, but they drive all sorts of (irrational) behaviors that have many dire consequences...indeed, that take lives as well as ruin them. Believing things that aren't true has consequences.

-Ww

 

[User#12791]

Very similar to the irrational fear of soft drugs.

 

[Jbagz]

here's the general rule:
if you're a straight male, you ain't ever gonna catch it
an unknowing straight female might get it from a guy who goes both ways, and this proves the first statement
if you're a straight male, you need to do unprotected intercourse many, many times with this straight infected female for you to catch it
and straight males don't do it many, many times with one woman, SW or hook-up
so that proves my first statement

conclusion: if you're a straight male, feel free to BBFS any woman you find hot and who's willing

Can you cite a link from a medical source that backs up these claims?

 

[Jbagz]

This is just anecdotal, but one’s generation seems to play a role here at least among American punters. Several older hobbyists that I know like to go raw even with pros. They all happen to be baby boomers. None of them are based in Japan.

By contrast, as a member of Generation X, I grew up with the specter of HIV/AIDS. That made me more careful.

I can't stand the Baby Boomer generation. I grew up in their shadow as a Gen Xer and I think they have been a disaster for America.

Half of them were once stupid hippies that made drug use and unprotected sex popular. Then they morphed into yuppies and made junk bond investing popular. The other half were the rednecks that just voted Trump into office.

Stupid Boomers.

 

[dreams]

I can't stand the Baby Boomer generation. I grew up in their shadow as a Gen Xer and I think they have been a disaster for America.

Half of them were once stupid hippies that made drug use and unprotected sex popular. Then they morphed into yuppies and made junk bond investing popular. The other half were the rednecks that just voted Trump into office.

Stupid Boomers.

How useful! Such generalization surely will help the Milleniums....

 

[Kulbutor]

What silliness!

In the context of p4p in Japan, HIV might as well be a legend.

-Ww

Ok! so go on without guys...

The guru has spoken!