I Hate Night Clubs !

[Solong]

If you liked 2000, you should have seen 1995 and 1990 and 1985 (well, '86; I wasn't in Tokyo in '85)!

I agree that the quality has generally gone down quite a lot over the years and decades, but it is also worth keeping in mind that (as you mention) one was much younger at these earlier times and that the fact changes the club experience (among many others) and one's perceptions of it quite a bit too.

-Ww

The change weirds me out a bit, because Japanese women then, appeared to act more sexually mature than now. Stories of good friends of mine from the 90s, who are not the type to exaggerate and have pictures, also confirms this.

If in a club/bar, years ago, when you met a woman that you liked and she liked you, sex at a hotel or apartment was no issue.

These days, it's more rampant childishness, sexual repression, fakeness, and pretentiousness appears to have taken hold. Maybe it's the economy, Japanese young adults living at home, ultra nationalistic groups pushing outdated Victorian type sexuality, negative media... But whatever it is, it makes the club scene here terrible.

It's not an age thing either. I have guys that I hang out with and a cousin here, who are in their mid 20s. And I'm talking to 20 something age women too. The common view is the same.

Consequently, I've and other guys that I know, have adapted a different approach to meeting women. That alternative approaches work, is arguably also reflective of negative media and group pressure on young Japanese women.

Anyway, many visiting foreigners don't know all about this. They come to Japan and attempt to meet/pick up women at clubs and bars (like you can in other countries), but here they find out it's terrible and a waste of money.

Clubs and bars in Tokyo are more useful to take your date TO them, as you already have a woman, not pick up women. And only SOME of them, that have a good design, where you can kiss or hug your date.

 

[SpookySmoothie]

What about live concerts ?
There are a bunch of fine places, there's alcohol served and people don't necessarily come only for the band or the music.

Live houses can be fun though different places and bands draw different crowds. Most sane people would probably avoid Cyclone and ACB Hall XD. I like Loft in Shinjuku and they have a variety of shows there. Some of the idol stuff is funny just for the crowd it draws especially the more metal hardcore idol groups. You get these guys straight in from work full on suit and briefcase and they just strip off like superman to a heavy metal outfit with all the goofy spikes and stuff. Visual Kei shows or shows with trendy rock bands seemed a good place to see attractive sometimes not entirely legal girls >.>.

 

[Sinapse]

Adult Japanese women acting like scared teenagers who never saw a penis or had sex before

rampant childishness, sexual repression, fakeness, and pretentiousness

I frequently hear you mention things like this about Japanese women.. and I'm wondering if we're in the same dating pool!

Seriously though, I see little to NONE of what you're talking about here at play.. There are plenty of girls who won't be interested in you.. but I don't see that as a reason to think they are sexually repressed or childish - actually I think you'll find a lot (most) of chicks in clubs actually DO know what is going on. If they aren't down for sex it's usually because they don't like you - not because they're sexually repressed.

Can't let you badmouth clubs that much either - though I'm sure it used to be much better. I prefer daytime and street environments for the quality of girls and free aspect of it, but there's no denying that you CAN pull from clubs - left and right if you know how to do it.

My personal ranking of clubs from easy to hard would be:

Easy:
------------
Muse
Feria
Jumanji
Gas Panic
Greenland
HUB (not a club but let's include it anyway)

Medium:
--------------
T2
Vision
Womb
Harlem
Ageha
V2

Hard:
--------------
Camelot
Atom
Bed
Axxcis

The difference being that mostly, the clubs on the "hard" circuit are heavily Japanese-focused / xenophobic AND social clubs - meaning you can't just run around spam-approaching and expect it to go well. The "Easy" bracket of clubs you could realistically pull a girl home / to a hotel 50% of the time if you know what you're doing.

 

[Sinapse]

What is a good substitute for night clubs ? Some bar lounges to propose to advise ? Not necessarily to hunt women, but at least to enjoy a nice night with nice friends with a nice conversation around a nice drink ?

If the clubs I listed above don't get you excited, you could try Rigaletto in Mori biru, A14813951 (never remember the actual number) in Midtown, R2 across from Feria, Two Rooms (the better version of R2) near Aoyama Daigaku, various British / Irish pubs like Hobgoblin and Dubliners, or do it the Japanese way - at an Izakaya or Sake house.

Japan isn't huge on the whole "social bar" thing.. instead people tend to go to places WITH their friends rather than to meet people, so you'll find fewer of those places - and they're mostly catered to a Western crowd

 

[Solong]

I frequently hear you mention things like this about Japanese women.. and I'm wondering if we're in the same dating pool!

Seriously though, I see little to NONE of what you're talking about here at play.. There are plenty of girls who won't be interested in you.. but I don't see that as a reason to think they are sexually repressed or childish - actually I think you'll find a lot (most) of chicks in clubs actually DO know what is going on. If they aren't down for sex it's usually because they don't like you - not because they're sexually repressed.

Can't let you badmouth clubs that much either - though I'm sure it used to be much better. I prefer daytime and street environments for the quality of girls and free aspect of it, but there's no denying that you CAN pull from clubs - left and right if you know how to do it.

My personal ranking of clubs from easy to hard would be:

Easy:
------------
Muse
Feria
Jumanji
Gas Panic
Greenland
HUB (not a club but let's include it anyway)

Uggghhh... on Roppongi. 1st it might be hard to understand what I'm saying, without being a person that could compare past and present. A guy might swear getting some phone numbers from some silly hand holding Roppongi chicks these days is "all that", when older guys "back in the day" were taking Roppongi girls up to rooftops and having sex with her and her girlfriend that same night, or pulling women out the club and into their car in 30 minutes of entering the club.

You meet a woman, and where are you bringing her around Roppongi? I hope you are not going to tell me the usually booked hotels in the immediate area. Shibuya, Shinjuku, and others are much better spots for taking a date to a hotel.

Jumanji???

Come on, have you really been there and done SNL pick up? Random contacts... OK, but for pick up I think it's terrible.

Let's have somebody rate that club, because many people says it sucks, beyond a teenager-like atmosphere. And everything you claimed I said was bad about Japanese women in clubs, shows itself there.

HUB

Not a club, but a chain of bars. But anyway, the HUBs are SHIT these days. Even some guys in Japan for only 5 years or so, since 2010, have seen the difference.

And I've picked up more women from HUBs than I care to remember. In fact, Japanese media and nationalist groups have particularly targeted the HUBs and Japanese women going there, with anti-foreigner propaganda and reports. Again, the HUBs exemplifying the things I've said.

Muse

It's a club with a big reputation, but in actuality isn't all that. More phone number and LINE collection, then any real SNL action. It's reputation is from the GHOST of it's past, when it was a lot more wild, than now. But, haven't been there this entire year. Maybe a total change of vibe happened. I doubt it, but maybe.

Gas Panic, now Red Area

In the day, we would have sex with women in the bathroom. Both of the Gas Panic locations, and Gas Panic 99, the one upstairs. When Gas Panic switched it's name to Red Area, the opening week, I was kicked out and "banned" there for having sex in the bathroom. They let me in months later, as with group, and I had to promise not to do "sex in the bathroom" again.

Again, now, more phone number and contact collection, among Japanese girls in close groups and lots of high school level like silliness.

Greenland

I was there when they first opened, and my friend and I sat up in the VIP area. They had Japanese female "go go" type dancers back then, and I took one of the dancers home, that night. That's how I celebrated their club opening.

The place isn't all that. Reputation, is bigger than it actually is.

Feria

Now here, maybe your strongest case.

Decent, I've picked up there plenty of times, past and recently. But the action these days seem to be more with the foreign women, than Japanese women. Met up and got lucky with an absolute blonde Norwegian stunner in June.

And entrance in that club isn't cheap. When it's said and done, easily you could have spent 10,000 yen or more on entrance fee and drinks.

I argue, some of the hot foreign women and models (that randomly come), make the place. And foreign women have less problems about being adult and coming back to an hotel or apartment. But, foreign or Japanese, don't be surprise it it's just a phone number collection party that night.

You have to know what you are doing, and will NOT be as easy for the average Joe, as you are labeling the place. Plus, you have to repay to get in. Can't just come and go as you please. Might have to choose being stuck there all night.

Alternatives

I'm just saying, pick up on the train or even the street is far cheaper and better, than wasting money and time in Roppongi.

Now with all that typed, I acknowledge that a guy can have tuned his club pick up game to be very tight and reasonably successful. But is the inconvenience of paying entrance fees, drinking, club hopping, etc... worth it or better than other ways? If a guy going out to the clubs is just collecting phone numbers and LINE contacts, that could be done anywhere.

 

[Sinapse]

Come on, have you really been there and done SNL pick up?

In the day, we would have sex with women in the bathroom.

All the clubs I listed under "easy" I have SNLd from multiple times. Some (HUB, Feria, and Jumanji) are either firmly in or nearing the double-digits for SNLs. Yes, it is easy to go around collecting numbers, and thats one way to run game, but gunning hard for the SNL is my favorite just based on sheer effectiveness. Re: Bathroom pulls these are still very much viable, I've done them in Feria (the ground floor one is unguarded during the heat of the night.. also got a BJ in behind some random divider on the second floor just inside past the lockers and under the stairwell), Womb, some random club in the side streets of Azabu I don't remember, Muse, and HUB. If I don't pull in the club, my go-to is just a taxi back to my place. I did once bang a girl by climbing a fence and the side of a building and onto a random roof .. that was an adventure. There's also a nice quiet park right next to Feria . Other than that, karaoke and the manga cafe with the skyline view are great.. and thats only in Roppongi. Really, if you get creative there's lots of places to pull to. Stairwells and dark alleyways are options, but these days I just always pull home since its usually a girl I wouldn't mind spending some time with. My friend (sadly, left Japan) used to pull girls from Roppongi to his station in Saitama, a 2 hour train ride at 5am.

So yeah, really you can pull wherever your creativity allows you to imagine

 

[Solong]

All the clubs I listed under "easy" I have SNLd from multiple times. Some (HUB, Feria, and Jumanji) are either firmly in or nearing the double-digits for SNLs. Yes, it is easy to go around collecting numbers, and thats one way to run game, but gunning hard for the SNL is my favorite just based on sheer effectiveness. Re: Bathroom pulls these are still very much viable, I've done them in Feria (the ground floor one is unguarded during the heat of the night.. also got a BJ in behind some random divider on the second floor just inside past the lockers and under the stairwell), Womb, some random club in the side streets of Azabu I don't remember, Muse, and HUB. If I don't pull in the club, my go-to is just a taxi back to my place. I did once bang a girl by climbing a fence and the side of a building and onto a random roof .. that was an adventure. There's also a nice quiet park right next to Feria . Other than that, karaoke and the manga cafe with the skyline view are great.. and thats only in Roppongi. Really, if you get creative there's lots of places to pull to. Stairwells and dark alleyways are options, but these days I just always pull home since its usually a girl I wouldn't mind spending some time with. My friend (sadly, left Japan) used to pull girls from Roppongi to his station in Saitama, a 2 hour train ride at 5am.

So yeah, really you can pull wherever your creativity allows you to imagine

Keep in mind, you appear to be recommending these clubs for "Average Joe", versus hard core SNL PUA Roppongi veterans. And, I'm referring to the overall sexual atmosphere and vibe of the clubs, not just what I can do personally. In general, I do NOT see much new hook ups. In fact very little. I see a whole lot of dudes, foreigners AND Japanese striking out terribly. Sexually inhibited Japanese women: in lesbian-like chat groups, talking about they came to the club only to listen to music, came only to talk with their girlfriends, "I'm not that type of girl", "I'm not yellow cab.", here is my LINE contact (and I will never reply), scared or paranoid out their minds if a foreigner and/or even Japanese guy comes up to them, I must work on the weekends/tomorrow morning (lies), etc... Ridiculous childishness and pretentiousness at absurd levels. And I didn't even mention the the club and bar rat type women/playgirls, who hang out in the same clubs all the time. It's more she is picking him up, than him picking her up. Or, women hired by clubs to sucker guys into buying drinks...

Now you or I, it's very clear that we are calculating opportunistic PUA types and club veterans. I don't doubt that you have a highly tuned club game. And my pals or I, are not into wasting time chasing around sexually repressed "buy me drinky" minded women. So are very tuned into those women who are up for SNL, and looking to hook up with guys. For me, and some of my other swinger pals, it's math. Way more successful NOT going to the night clubs, and way more success talking to women in "alternative" locations like trains, cafes, video stores, the streets, etc... Hell, even online dating is arguably way better than clubs in Roppongi.

I challenge anyone, of the clubs you named "easy", to go to those clubs and simply observe. How much do you see any new hook ups (not couples that came together) between other men and women? Just simply hang out at spots, watch and observe. And that is where my case is the strongest. Expats that have been in Japan for years and know Roppongi, know the difference. In years past, I would be in the clubs, and watch guys taking women out of them all the time, to bathrooms, etc... Action you could SEE around you, not just what you are doing. Now, LOL!!! Looks like some type of high school dance, where many Japanese women are afraid to dance, much less get sexual with guys. No way, could I ever recommend Tokyo clubs to other foreign guys. They will usually have a terrible experience. If anything, I rather tell them to be good at day game (develop pick up skills), then bother with the clubs and bars when they got skills and if they have extra time to kill and get drunk.

 

[Wwanderer]

I frequently hear you mention things like this about Japanese women.. and I'm wondering if we're in the same dating pool!

Seriously though, I see little to NONE of what you're talking about here at play.. There are plenty of girls who won't be interested in you.. but I don't see that as a reason to think they are sexually repressed or childish - actually I think you'll find a lot (most) of chicks in clubs actually DO know what is going on. If they aren't down for sex it's usually because they don't like you - not because they're sexually repressed.

Let me second the above reaction and particularly the bit I made bold. This is nothing new to me. The contrast between the women in @Solong's life, as he describes them, and those I encounter in mine is so great that it often makes me wonder if we are posting to TAG from different planets or parallel universes or some other sort of separate realities. In fact I have commented on it several times in the past; here's the most recent one I recall:

http://www.tokyoadultguide.com/threads/the-sexless-women-in-japan.9556/page-2#post-40542

Let me add that this disconnect between my experience and his is by no means restricted to female sexuality. I also don't often encounter all the bad non-sexual female behaviors he routinely reports within relationships - lying, cheating, manipulating, disloyalty, selfishness, extreme materialism and so on.

@Solong very often specifies *Japanese* women when he expresses some negative generalization about females, but here too my experience differs. While there are surely and undeniably cultural differences, I have not found Japanese and non-Japanese women to be markedly different in terms of basic human character traits such as honesty, selflessness, courage, intelligence etc.

I could speculate about explanations but really have no way of knowing. However it is puzzling and does often sound sad to me.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

I don't spend enough time in Tokyo clubs in recent years to say much about that topic/debate...and certainly not about specific clubs, but when I do go (maybe once per 6 months on average and just about always with a date), I generally have a good time and see a reasonable amount of socializing in progress. I also just about always leave with LINE or other contact info for a woman or two despite having come with a date and despite not trying to meet new people (but then I never consciously try...in the sense of going with that purpose). So, it doesn't seem all that hyper-grim to me.

That said, the wild carnival/mardi gras/matsuri/spring-weekend club atmosphere of decades past does seem to be gone. But I don't think the clubbing scene is unique or isolated in this respect. Imo the long slow agony of the economy is the likely primary culprit. Japanese culture and life in general has become more serious (or even grim) and less playful and exuberant than it was back in the bubble years when money flowed so freely that one sometimes wondered if pets and small children would be washed away in the torrents of money that seemed to run through every sector of life. That era's almost hysterical optimism about the future has been replaced by, at best, worried uncertainty and often outright pessimism for the decades ahead. The mood of the country just isn't as conducive to partying and hedonism as it once was. Shoganai...

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

you appear to be recommending these clubs for "Average Joe"

Well yeah, I do think most guys with a little bit of practice can be pulling regularly from clubs.. Dorian Gray always would say "club game is something a reasonably socially intelligent 14 year old could master"

I randomly met a guy, white from the US, who went to T2 over the course of his short stay here a bunch of times and pulled a bunch too - and T2 is way harder than any of those roppongi clubs! It's notorious, even, for being anti foreigner. But the dude had like NO Japanese. So it definitely is possible.

sexually repressed "buy me drinky"

What kind of behavior leads you to believe they are sexually repressed?

I haven't met many girls out in clubs who fit this description. Occasionally you'll get girls who want you to buy them drinks, but it's not really something you HAVE to do. If you get upset at them for even asking though, yeah I could see how that doesn't go anywhere.

I think people react largely how you expect them to and how you react to THEM.

 

[Solong]

Let me second the above reaction and particularly the bit I made bold. This is nothing new to me. The contrast between the women in @Solong's life, as he describes them, and those I encounter in mine is so great that it often makes me wonder if we are posting to TAG from different planets or parallel universes or some other sort of separate realities. In fact I have commented on it several times in the past; here's the most recent one I recall:

http://www.tokyoadultguide.com/threads/the-sexless-women-in-japan.9556/page-2#post-40542

Let me add that this disconnect between my experience and his is by no means restricted to female sexuality. I also don't often encounter all the bad non-sexual female behaviors he routinely reports within relationships - lying, cheating, manipulating, disloyalty, selfishness, extreme materialism and so on.

@Solong very often specifies *Japanese* women when he expresses some negative generalization about females, but here too my experience differs. While there are surely and undeniably cultural differences, I have not found Japanese and non-Japanese women to be markedly different in terms of basic human character traits such as honesty, selflessness, courage, intelligence etc.

I could speculate about explanations but really have no way of knowing. However it is puzzling and does often sound sad to me.

-Ww

You have specified that you buy women and/or give the impression of mainly sugarbaby relationships. Of course this would be different from normal relationships and interactions. Women that you are paying would likely have a different type of behavior or even act fake around you, as a customer. When you are a paying customer, many service providers would behave accordingly. It's like a super polite acting waitress serving customers, where what she really thinks or how she acts after work might be very different.

Furthermore, long term relationships of women that I'm with, often go remarkably smoothly. Partially, because of the level of honesty we achieve. The relationship is often at a level (swinging, sex orgies, polyamory, open-relationship) that others are not.

I tend to also dig into female history and have honest conversations with women. That is, I learn about what they have done and are doing with guys. This is something many guys don't do, are oblivious to, or don't want to know.

It's like the husband of a woman my pals and I are having gang bang sex with in a hotel. We know all the dirt and wild stuff she does, where he thinks (or her neighbors and most of her friends) or he wants to think of her as the "perfect" housewife. Thus the contrasts between our perspectives is HUGE.

 

[Solong]

Well yeah, I do think most guys with a little bit of practice can be pulling regularly from clubs.. Dorian Gray always would say "club game is something a reasonably socially intelligent 14 year old could master"

I randomly met a guy, white from the US, who went to T2 over the course of his short stay here a bunch of times and pulled a bunch too - and T2 is way harder than any of those roppongi clubs! It's notorious, even, for being anti foreigner. But the dude had like NO Japanese. So it definitely is possible.



What kind of behavior leads you to believe they are sexually repressed?

I haven't met many girls out in clubs who fit this description. Occasionally you'll get girls who want you to buy them drinks, but it's not really something you HAVE to do. If you get upset at them for even asking though, yeah I could see how that doesn't go anywhere.

I think people react largely how you expect them to and how you react to THEM.

Here, you are assuming that "Average Joe" has or will get some training or coaching in PUA. Which most never got or will get. I would expect a trained PUA to be more effective at clubs and bars, or at least frequent club veteran, where he eventually grinds out a date or even at least occasionally a SNL.

I suggest that you perhabs go to clubs/bars and simply watch and observe the random guys and female interactions. My perceived negativity (though I see it as more about being realistic), comes from knowing past and present. Even an optimist like Ww, concedes there is a very noticeable difference.

The comments on Japanese women being more sexual repressed, comes from countless discussions and sexual interactions with young Japanese women. This is where I have Japanese women tell me about their views on sex and relationships. And I can contrast this with years of past experience.

Friends of mine and I (to include Japanese guys) are pushing the envelope and boundaries, even by Western standards. But it also means we tend to dig very deeply into the thinking and views of the women we interact with. We don't simply want to have one night sex with her. We want to know if she is: bisexual, likes or are open to sex orgies, does anal, has a fetish, lingerie, bondage, etc...

Lastly, my point on the effectiveness and costs of the club/bars seemed ignored. If a guy will just be collecting phone numbers and LINE contacts, he doesn't need the club/bar for this nor spend so much money on entrance fees and getting himself drunk.

So, a guy who is a well trained or veteran heavy homerun hitter and scoring SNL with women at a high rate is one thing, versus Average Joe where he rarely and possibly never got so lucky.

 

[Wwanderer]

Well, I don't know what the explanation for the differences in our experiences with women are, but I do know somethings that it is NOT.

It is definitely not this:

You have specified that you buy women and/or give the impression of mainly sugarbaby relationships. Of course this would be different from normal relationships and interactions. Women that you are paying would likely have a different type of behavior or even act fake around you, as a customer. When you are a paying customer, many service providers would behave accordingl.

I have and have had plenty, way more than most men, relationships with women that are in no way p4p or sugar or anything of the sort. I post about them much less on TAG (or anywhere else)aa for two reasons. One is simply because they are not particularly relevant for other readers; it is not like these women are available in any sense to other TAGers. This board is first and foremost about the many forms of commercial sex available in Japan, and it is my experiences with p4p that seem relevant. Second, the np4p relationships I have are (obviously) extremely personal to not only me but to my partner in the relationship, and when I go to say something about them, it often feels like a violation of their privacy to me even though I am doing it on an anonymous basis. Anyway, even if I completely disregard my p4p experiences and judge only by my np4p ones, women in "my world" are simply not the vile creatures you so often describe.

Beyond that, women whom one is seeing on a p4p basis actually have more, not less, motivation/reason to lie, manipulate, cheat etc you, not less. So, the whole argument makes little sense to me.


It also definitely isn't this:

I tend to also dig into female history and have honest conversations with women. That is, I learn about what they have done and are doing with guys. This is something many guys don't do, are oblivious to, or don't want to know.

Women routinely talk to me extensively and in detail about their private lives and relationships with other men. I am not sure why and am often surprised by how frank they are. Indeed, they often express surprise and tell me that they are telling me things they never thought they would feel comfortable telling any man...or anyone at all in some cases. As an example, I can think of a half dozen women who have shown me their correspondence (LINE, email, texting of various sorts etc) with other lovers and asked my advice on what to do or how to respond...even for help composing responses in some cases. Perhaps it is because people often tell me that I am exceptionally non-judgmental and un-jealous (though that isn't a word!).

So, whatever the reason you and your pals have so much more negative experiences and impressions of women than I have encountered, neither of those explanations are correct...far from it.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

Well, I don't know what the explanation for the differences in our experiences with women are, but I do know somethings that it is NOT.

It is definitely not this:



I have and have had plenty, way more than most men, relationships with women that are in no way p4p or sugar or anything of the sort. I post about them much less on TAG (or anywhere else)aa for two reasons. One is simply because they are not particularly relevant for other readers; it is not like these women are available in any sense to other TAGers. This board is first and foremost about the many forms of commercial sex available in Japan, and it is my experiences with p4p that seem relevant. Second, the np4p relationships I have are (obviously) extremely personal to not only me but to my partner in the relationship, and when I go to say something about them, it often feels like a violation of their privacy to me even though I am doing it on an anonymous basis. Anyway, even if I completely disregard my p4p experiences and judge only by my np4p ones, women in "my world" are simply not the vile creatures you so often describe.

Beyond that, women whom one is seeing on a p4p basis actually have more, not less, motivation/reason to lie, manipulate, cheat etc you, not less. So, the whole argument makes little sense to me.


It also definitely isn't this:



Women routinely talk to me extensively and in detail about their private lives and relationships with other men. I am not sure why and am often surprised by how frank they are. Indeed, they often express surprise and tell me that they are telling me things they never thought they would feel comfortable telling any man...or anyone at all in some cases. As an example, I can think of a half dozen women who have shown me their correspondence (LINE, email, texting of various sorts etc) with other lovers and asked my advice on what to do or how to respond...even for help composing responses in some cases. Perhaps it is because people often tell me that I am exceptionally non-judgmental and un-jealous (though that isn't a word!).

So, whatever the reason you and your pals have so much more negative experiences and impressions of women than I have encountered, neither of those explanations are correct...far from it.

-Ww

You are mixing some things up. I didn't say nor think women are generally "vile". I think women are no less "vile" than men. If you are trying to pigeonhole me, then understand this about my views. Men and women are equal in my eyes.

In fact, I'm not being specifically derogatory, but realistically describing behavior that I see. There is a very strong difference.

I think there is an odd phenomenon around here, where if you say anything perceived to be negative towards Japan or women in the slightest, that you must be a foaming at the mouth racist women hater. Back up a bit with that, realize that I have lived in Japan for many years, speak Japanese, live and work with Japanese, etc...

That I hate Japan, Japanese women, or women is laughable. It's looks more as an attempt to pigeonhole a person, so as to summarily dismiss their arguments or points. Like- "He is a racist (or he said something that hurt my feelings), so ignore everything he says and no matter what he says.

Because a Porsche owner talks about some engine problems, doesn't mean he thinks a Porsche is a "vile" car or that being an owner of a Porsche is negative overall. He simply may not feel the need to wear rose colored glasses or can be very realistic and direct in his assessments. At the end of the day, he still likes driving his Porsche.

 

[Wwanderer]

In fact, I'm not being specifically derogatory, but realistically describing behavior that I see. There is a very strong difference.

I assume/believe that you are describing your experiences with women as you perceive them and as realistically as you can. The issue/question is why your experiences appear to differ so dramatically and consistently from mine and those of lots of other men.

Or even disregard my personal experiences, as I mentioned in my post from another thread that I linked above, I have talked to many many men about women over several decades and in many cultural contexts, and I have rarely ever heard so many negative descriptions of women and female behavior as fill your TAG posts about women, especially Japanese women.

Basically I don't recognize the world of female behavior you often describe. So, I wonder why.

-Ww

 

[John Chavers]

I'm confused on the difference between japanese and JAPANESE women.

 

[Solong]

I assume/believe that you are describing your experiences with women as you perceive them and as realistically as you can. The issue/question is why your experiences appear to differ so dramatically and consistently from mine and those of lots of other men.

Or even disregard my personal experiences, as I mentioned in my post from another thread that I linked above, I have talked to many many men about women over several decades and in many cultural contexts, and I have rarely ever heard so many negative descriptions of women and female behavior as fill your TAG posts about women, especially Japanese women.

Basically I don't recognize the world of female behavior you often describe. So, I wonder why.

-Ww

As mentioned, the average guy isn't digging too deeply into the sexual history or views of women, and many prefer not to know. And even if or when attempting to do so, only on a superficial level, exchanging only what is socially acceptable, or massively sugarcoating whatever is said.

I'm interested in neither the superficial or socially acceptable, especially when it conflicts with reality, truth, or honesty.

I assume/believe that you are describing your experiences with women as you perceive them and as realistically as you can. The issue/question is why your experiences appear to differ so dramatically and consistently from mine and those of lots of other men.

Or even disregard my personal experiences, as I mentioned in my post from another thread that I linked above, I have talked to many many men about women over several decades and in many cultural contexts, and I have rarely ever heard so many negative descriptions of women and female behavior as fill your TAG posts about women, especially Japanese women.

Basically I don't recognize the world of female behavior you often describe. So, I wonder why.

-Ww

 

[Curacao]

Solong, I think you might be suffering from confirmation bias. The number of chicks you're banging - even if it is prodigiously large - is a tiny percentage of all Japanese females. Also, the behaviors you seem to think are peculiar to Japanese women are not confined to just them. I know a lot of western women who cheat on their husbands etc. I myself behave terribly to my wife. She doesn't know that I have had affairs with coworkers, paid for new half escorts, or met people off craigslist.
Finally, you seem to think that Japanese women are particularly repressed. My wife's stories about coworkers are pretty hair-raising. (On my mobile so this answer is slightly abbreviated so forgive me if you feel I have mischaracterised your views.)

Oh and one more thing, people tend to give answers that are dependent on what they think their listener wants to hear. That goes just as much for a Japanese woman interacting with a self professed swinger as it does for one who is interacting in a context where they are expected to be a prim and proper OL or whatever (and also for guys talking to their bosses, or medieval suspects of witchcraft to their inquisitors etc etc etc - not just a Japanese or female phenomenon).

 

[Solong]

Basically I don't recognize the world of female behavior you often describe. So, I wonder why.

-Ww

This is a deceptive comment. And I'm going to call you out on it.

What is it that was said, that you have never ever seen females do?

You don't know women cheat?

Never heard a woman lie?

Perhaps you want to tell us that women are always goody goody Cinderella sweet cheery whatever mommy says angels. Or, perhaps it's only the Japanese women that are this magically goody goody.

 

[split]

After going to DianaClub near Yurakucho, a lesser known club to foreigners, and then going to a typical club in Roppongi, I think the key to having a good time at a 'danceclub' is to go to one that is less frequented by foreigners. Although I had spent a hefty 4,000 Yen to get into DianaClub, I would have continued staying there had I known the club in Roppongi was going to be so terrible. In fact, the girl from the Yurakucho club has emailed me with her Line info and wanting to do it again.

 

[Solong]

After going to DianaClub near Yurakucho, a lesser known club to foreigners, and then going to a typical club in Roppongi, I think the key to having a good time at a 'danceclub' is to go to one that is less frequented by foreigners. Although I had spent a hefty 4,000 Yen to get into DianaClub, I would have continued staying there had I known the club in Roppongi was going to be so terrible. After that one night, I don't think I would want to go back to any club in Roppongi ever again. In fact, the girl from that club has emailed me with her Line info and wanting to do it again.

Why would going to a dance club with no foreigners make it better? It sounds almost as if foreigners are poisonous. Too much "foreigner"(poison) kills "everything" (whatever that is supposed to be).

If a foreigner goes to a dance club where there are no other foreigners, does it mean he is truly any more likely to get laid or be accepted there?

 

[split]

Good point. I couldn't speak for getting laid from a club. And I now see you've had some wild romps to compare the past with today. But from my perceptions it seemed that women in Roppongi had an aversion to foreigners not even letting you put your hands on their waists without trying to walk off.

 

[Solong]

Good point. I couldn't speak for getting laid from a club. And I now see you've had some wild romps to compare the past with today. But from my perceptions it seemed that women in Roppongi had an aversion to foreigners not even letting you put your hands on their waists without trying to walk off.

Now you are beginning to notice something, and about what I'm saying...

And in responding, that's where things I say become very controversial, hurts feelings, or disturbs the views that some have constructed. Because there is often dividing lines between how Japanese and foreigners want to perceive it, how men and women look at it, and views on race and xenophobia. Just mentioning the reality of this though, can get you the label of ranting racist and woman hater. [emoji12]

So I will break this down a bit differently:

1) If you were in an entirely or nearly all Japanese club environment, it makes little to NO difference on getting laid.

Meaning, those Japanese women who are averse to being approached sexually, would likely be regardless if you are Japanese or foreigner. She can simply be sexually inhibited, very conservative, or limited.

If certain women were making such a distinction based on race or nationality, it's more likely that she is racist or highly bias, thus you as a foreign man had no shot whatsoever. The location or club, that there are a lot or no other foreigners, would make little difference with that particular woman.


2) Foreigners (especially males), according to various people or popular perceptions, are all running amock like dirty perverted wild beasts trying to touch, sex, or rape the totally pure and good Japanese women.

The foreign males, particularly, are doing what Japanese men never do, thus disturbing the peace, calm, and perfect tranquility of the all Japanese atmosphere (sarcasm level on high).

Consequently, the narrative or perception among some can be the less foreigners (especially male), always the better, in Japan.

Oh but, when Japanese travel overseas or want to date foreign women, that's totally different. When Japanese seek to enter clubs in foreign countries or date foreign women, please... no we demand that you open your arms widely and accept, because otherwise that's racist.

This is arguably an image often projected by the Japanese media and various nationalist groups. Less someone claims this isn't so...

(Japanese ultra-nationalist group distributed this highly xenophobic and racist literature to the public)

 

[Curacao]

'Often projected'?

By a minority of nutty old guys maybe.

 

[Mr Cat]

Solong if you are white and a Japanese woman doesn't want to sleep with you it doesn't make her a racist or nationalist. It just means : you are not her type (but she might be open to other white men), white men may not be her type (and that's ok, it isn't racism. Everybody have their own liking.), she might not be the type of person who wants to have sex with people she barely knows (and that's OK too).
A girl in a club isn't necessarily looking for sex and thus can decline having sex with you or anyone else, it doesn't make her a prude childish spoiled asexual bitch.
Just move on and find the ones that want sex, there are plenty.

In any case I don't see any proof of racism in there. Feel free to explain where do you see racism