Recognizing Japanese Who Are Passive-aggressive Or Racist

[e-smile]

This sounds like bullshit to me.

Whats a "third world mindset"?
Does any country that doesn't have a western mindset have a third world mindset?

If you'd ask me to guess what "third world mindset" means i would say for example
- people who make a lot of kids because they hope their kids will take care of them later
- village people who are happy with the small things in life and not materialistic
- and some people who work very hard, are completely relentless and do everything they can do escape poverty

None of this is Japanese at all, i'd even say Japanese people are exactly the opposite of this. Low childbirth, unhappy and not very ambitious (rather being a salaryman than starting your own company for example).

So what do they mean? Racism?
As far as i know, third world countries are not racist, except for trying to scam tourists excessively.

I strongly agree

and I'd add that Japan's advance is really due to their people mindset that is completely different from 3rd world.
I know it's not good to generalize but if I may I'd say that "third world mindset" would be a lazy one and bad teamwork in one hand and warm and very social people which is the total opposite of "Japanese mindset" which is rather hardworking, good collective organisation and team work but too shy personalities that makes them socially clumsy.

that said I'll have to disagree with something you said about 3rd world countries not being racist and it has nothing to do with scam that are not only aimed on tourist but on rich people in general (including countrymen). There is a lot of racism in the 3rd world countries including very violent ones (Rwanda's genocide in 94 is one of the most striking example I can think of), it's just not aimed at rich foreigners so the west doesn't really hear about it. Also the inferiority complex makes in the 3rd world countries be seen as superior and this is also racism.

 

[User#8628]

that said I'll have to disagree with something you said about 3rd world countries not being racist and it has nothing to do with scam that are not only aimed on tourist but on rich people in general (including countrymen). There is a lot of racism in the 3rd world countries including very violent ones (Rwanda's genocide in 94 is one of the most striking example I can think of), it's just not aimed at rich foreigners so the west doesn't really hear about it. Also the inferiority complex makes in the 3rd world countries be seen as superior and this is also racism.

My bad, i indeed just meant most likely no racism towards expats.

The situation you described is very true but also not similar to Japan.

 

[e-smile]

My bad, i indeed just meant most likely no racism towards expats.

The situation you described is very true but also not similar to Japan.

absolutely !

Japan has indeed a social pressure but it's often worse for locals than for foreigners.
In my experience I get treated better when I speak English and they don't expect me to know their rules than when I speak Japanese and they think I'm fluent enough to be considered a local.
In France or Spain it was the opposite, you get treated better if you speak as a local and prove yourself to be interested in blending in.

In my home country (a country that can be considered as a 3rd world country) there are 4 categories of foreigners :
Africans
* when they don't speak the local language some people are pretty rude to them and see them as poor refugees because of the many African beggars in the crossroad, there have been campaigns to defend them in the recent years with slogans like "don't harm my brother"
* when they speak the local language they are treated as local (my home country is also in Africa)

Arabs
They don't speak the local language and they'll never try, the locals learn arabic at school and they only come for the clubs the booze and the hookers. They have a very bad image of arrogant wealthy hypocrites who come to do what they claim to be Haram in their home country.

Chinese
Very recent wave of immigration and surprisingly they all speak the local language. There is still not a Chinatown in my home country and most people don't know much more about China than the very popular kung fu actors so even if they may think it's rude when some stupid kids say Jacky Chan in front of them they don't have a bad image and they are seen as harmless nice people.

Westerners
* when they don't speak the local language they benefit from the inferiority complex and are treated like gods and everyone will try to speak their language
* when they speak the local language (very very rare cases) they are still treated like gods with in addition a lot of gratefulness because they kinda appear modest enough to accept showing will to adapt with thus indigenous.

 

[Garcian]

I think public education is the issue here.

From kindergarten age on, people here are taught about the Japanese way, how Japanese have to behave, Japanese this and that, that inevitably they have to start thinking that their precious country is different from any other place.

Sometimes, I can hear grown men or women talking "Nihonjin are like this and that, right?" on the street or train. Something I have never heard from any other nationality, local or non-local, in any other place I have been so far. When they hammer such an idea into your head as soon as you learn to speak, you can not really be blamed for having a limited point of view on the world. I bet many know the TV show "Why did YOU come to Japan?". I mean, think about it, that is on public TV.

It took me a lot of time, years actually, to accept that, but I have now. From my humble experience of living in JP since 2011, I have not found there to be any difference between the generations. I hear "ah, right, foreigners are like that, ne" from children, adolescents, adults, seniors, doesn't matter.

So much for the general view. On a personal level, of course some guys hate people who are not like them. I would not even consider that racism, because "foreign" is not a race.
Others have found a way to broaden their horizon, which is great, and I am always glad meeting such a person.

A funny story from a company dinner 2 weeks ago. Or at least it is funny to me. It was in Japanese, if that helps.

Me: Ah, these guys should finish their plate instead of drinking. I hate throwing food away.
Him: Wow, really, I thought only Japanese think that way.
Me: Why?
Him: Well, I thought foreigners like ordering too much and then throwing stuff away.
Me: And why do you think that?
Him: Because I have never been to another country.

So now, is that racist? To me, it just a sign that the poor guy was taught how unique and special and unlike any other place his country is that he has developed an image of "non-Japanese" that is keeping his view on life extremely limited and somehow strange.

Such a long post, hope it isn't boring as f***.

 

[Frenchy]

I think public education is the issue here.

From kindergarten age on, people here are taught about the Japanese way, how Japanese have to behave, Japanese this and that, that inevitably they have to start thinking that their precious country is different from any other place.

Sometimes, I can hear grown men or women talking "Nihonjin are like this and that, right?" on the street or train. Something I have never heard from any other nationality, local or non-local, in any other place I have been so far. When they hammer such an idea into your head as soon as you learn to speak, you can not really be blamed for having a limited point of view on the world. I bet many know the TV show "Why did YOU come to Japan?". I mean, think about it, that is on public TV.

It took me a lot of time, years actually, to accept that, but I have now. From my humble experience of living in JP since 2011, I have not found there to be any difference between the generations. I hear "ah, right, foreigners are like that, ne" from children, adolescents, adults, seniors, doesn't matter.

So much for the general view. On a personal level, of course some guys hate people who are not like them. I would not even consider that racism, because "foreign" is not a race.
Others have found a way to broaden their horizon, which is great, and I am always glad meeting such a person.

A funny story from a company dinner 2 weeks ago. Or at least it is funny to me. It was in Japanese, if that helps.

Me: Ah, these guys should finish their plate instead of drinking. I hate throwing food away.
Him: Wow, really, I thought only Japanese think that way.
Me: Why?
Him: Well, I thought foreigners like ordering too much and then throwing stuff away.
Me: And why do you think that?
Him: Because I have never been to another country.

So now, is that racist? To me, it just a sign that the poor guy was taught how unique and special and unlike any other place his country is that he has developed an image of "non-Japanese" that is keeping his view on life extremely limited and somehow strange.

Such a long post, hope it isn't boring as f***.

Not boring , I agree with most of what you wrote except that I feel at various degrees many people in many other countries are also like that.
What is probably so different about Japan is that it's an island country which has been closed to the rest of the world for so long they could develop a really unique culture that make them feel so different. Imagine if the USA now was an empire of Native Americans with a unified culture, language, society , never colonized and barely in contact with the rest of the world until about 1860 (which is really recent in human history).

 

[Frenchy]

I think public education is the issue here.

From kindergarten age on, people here are taught about the Japanese way, how Japanese have to behave, Japanese this and that, that inevitably they have to start thinking that their precious country is different from any other place.

Sometimes, I can hear grown men or women talking "Nihonjin are like this and that, right?" on the street or train. Something I have never heard from any other nationality, local or non-local, in any other place I have been so far. When they hammer such an idea into your head as soon as you learn to speak, you can not really be blamed for having a limited point of view on the world. I bet many know the TV show "Why did YOU come to Japan?". I mean, think about it, that is on public TV.

It took me a lot of time, years actually, to accept that, but I have now. From my humble experience of living in JP since 2011, I have not found there to be any difference between the generations. I hear "ah, right, foreigners are like that, ne" from children, adolescents, adults, seniors, doesn't matter.

So much for the general view. On a personal level, of course some guys hate people who are not like them. I would not even consider that racism, because "foreign" is not a race.
Others have found a way to broaden their horizon, which is great, and I am always glad meeting such a person.

A funny story from a company dinner 2 weeks ago. Or at least it is funny to me. It was in Japanese, if that helps.

Me: Ah, these guys should finish their plate instead of drinking. I hate throwing food away.
Him: Wow, really, I thought only Japanese think that way.
Me: Why?
Him: Well, I thought foreigners like ordering too much and then throwing stuff away.
Me: And why do you think that?
Him: Because I have never been to another country.

So now, is that racist? To me, it just a sign that the poor guy was taught how unique and special and unlike any other place his country is that he has developed an image of "non-Japanese" that is keeping his view on life extremely limited and somehow strange.

Such a long post, hope it isn't boring as f***.

Not boring , I agree with most of what you wrote except that I feel at various degrees many people in many other countries are also like that.
What is probably so different about Japan is that it's an island country which has been closed to the rest of the world for so long they could develop a really unique culture that make them feel so different. Imagine if the USA now was an empire of Native Americans with a unified culture, language, society , never colonized and barely in contact with the rest of the world until about 1860 (which is really recent in human history).

 

[Garcian]

Not boring , I agree with most of what you wrote except that I feel at various degrees many people in many other countries are also like that.

Agreed. I just find it more present and "in your face" here than any other place I have been.

I do believe that this feeling of being unique is only caused by knowing nothing about the rest of the world. The other day I saw an elderly lady on youtube, asked if she would rent her apartments to [foreigners]. She said no, mainly because a) foreigners wear shoes inside the house and b) the Japanese system of separating trash is so difficult and special. That is just hilarious.

 

[MikeH]

She said no, mainly because a) foreigners wear shoes inside the house and b) the Japanese system of separating trash is so difficult and special. That is just hilarious.

This would hilarious but... It's already couple of decades ago but one of my Japanese friends was moving for another country for couple of years. He had a great big house and he was thinking about renting it away for the period he is also away.

So the first possible renter is a family moving in from USA. The house is a beautiful Japanese old style house with all tatami rooms and stuff. The rent is something like a million per month. The father of the family is going to be a CEO in his company's Tokyo office so they are good with that.

But the lease agreement says you need to take out your shoes in the entrance and cannot walk in shoes over the tatami. That's the killing point, the US family will not do that, they need to be able to live with their shoes on. So the deal falls through.

If I was renting apartment in Tokyo I would not rent to foreigners either. Unless they have a local guarantor and pay three months rent in advance and possible not even then. I have seen too many guys skipping the country leaving all kinds of bills behind, cell phones, last three months of rent, etc. to be sceptical.

 

[Garcian]

But the lease agreement says you need to take out your shoes in the entrance and cannot walk in shoes over the tatami. That's the killing point, the US family will not do that, they need to be able to live with their shoes on. So the deal falls through.

If I was renting apartment in Tokyo I would not rent to foreigners either. Unless they have a local guarantor and pay three months rent in advance and possible not even then. I have seen too many guys skipping the country leaving all kinds of bills behind, cell phones, last three months of rent, etc. to be sceptical.

My point was not that there are no people in the world who like to walk inside the house with shoes on. There certainly are, as there are people who like to walk on the street barefooted. (Ew!)

My point was that the elderly lady thinks that not wearing shoes inside is somehow a "Japanese thing" and maybe even a Japanese invention. I have never worn shoes inside my house , mainly because I don't want to bring in the shit from the street. That is much more an issue of convenience and logic than "culture".

My other point was that she thinks Japanese trash separation (which is ridiculously easy) was somehow a challenge to non-Japanese, while my German friend tells me that he separates a tea bag into four different trash cans. The thing is that the thought "hm, maybe other countries do that, too" has never ever crossed her mind.

I would rent my house to anybody as long as they are legit, but I do see your point, of course.

 

[User#8628]

Once, this Japanese guy asked me "can i put it in the back door" and i was like "no" and he was like "oh so you have done it before but i cant" and i was like "no i never do that" (to be honest i have made a few rare attenpts but they take gentleness, preparation, lube and usually drunkness).
And he was like "but i thought ALL foreign girls do that" i said "no way, how did you get that idea?" And he answered "because they are always doing anal in American AV"
...

 

[Garcian]

Once, this Japanese guy asked me "can i put it in the back door" and i was like "no" and he was like "oh so you have done it before but i cant" and i was like "no i never do that" (to be honest i have made a few rare attenpts but they take gentleness, preparation, lube and usually drunkness).
And he was like "but i thought ALL foreign girls do that" i said "no way, how did you get that idea?" And he answered "because they are always doing anal in American AV"
...

Yep.

Some girls in American AV = all girls in American AV = all American girls = all foreign girls.

Brilliant. And exactly what I was talking about.

 

[drlucozade88]

This sounds like bullshit to me.

Whats a "third world mindset"?

A third world mindset: A society where, women are treated like shit, foreigners are treated like shit, foreigners have no rights against prejudice and discrimination, anyone who does't have "true Yamato blood" is treated like shit (Ainu, Okinawans, Barakumin, Zainichi Koreans), and that includes your half-Japanese son's and daughters are treated like shit, and a complete ignorant and distorted view of what the world is really like.

However you seemed to have just answered your own question in you later posts with the anal story.

 

[MikeH]

My point was that the elderly lady thinks that not wearing shoes inside is somehow a "Japanese thing" and maybe even a Japanese invention.

Why do you keep pestering that sweet old lady? You know she survived the mass fire bombings, the starvation after the war and then brought up three babies and put them through university pretty much all by herself.

When she was growing up foreigners in Japan were Americans. So not a big surprise she thinks all foreigners wear shoes at home even though we know it is not a custom anywhere else.

Not that I even disagree with you pretty much on anything, it's just a matter of slightly different emphasis on things. But also I have never yet met a country that didn't think their culture is somewhat unique and if not best, then at least in the top three in the world. And if they have their own language it will always have some words that foreigners will never understand as there are no complete equivalent words in English.

So yeah, Japanese people can be racist, discriminating, self absorbed and what not; just like anyone else.

 

[Tabanico]

I feel like this thread is helping me understand a lot about non-japanese people who are passive-aggressive or racist.

 

[Garcian]

Why do you keep pestering that sweet old lady? You know she survived the mass fire bombings, the starvation after the war and then brought up three babies and put them through university pretty much all by herself.

When she was growing up foreigners in Japan were Americans. So not a big surprise she thinks all foreigners wear shoes at home even though we know it is not a custom anywhere else.

Not that I even disagree with you pretty much on anything, it's just a matter of slightly different emphasis on things. But also I have never yet met a country that didn't think their culture is somewhat unique and if not best, then at least in the top three in the world. And if they have their own language it will always have some words that foreigners will never understand as there are no complete equivalent words in English.

So yeah, Japanese people can be racist, discriminating, self absorbed and what not; just like anyone else.

Haha, the lady was lovely. Absolutely nothing against her.

 

[Garcian]

I feel like this thread is helping me understand a lot about non-japanese people who are passive-aggressive or racist.

Interesting. Care to elaborate?

 

[MikeH]

Haha, the lady was lovely. Absolutely nothing against her.

Now I am waiting for the review of her!

 

[MikeH]

who are passive-aggressive or racist.

Why do we have to choose? I want to be both.

 

[Garcian]

Why do we have to choose? I want to be both.

Brilliant

 

[Lukes]

I feel like this thread is helping me understand a lot about non-japanese people who are passive-aggressive or racist.

Most everyone here on TAG is connected to Japan in some significant way. For some, it's because they are married to Japanese, others because of their jobs and some for no reason other than that they are perverts (also most of us). It is also apparently a virgin pilgrimage site this year.

Many (I'd say the vast majority) of us do have a deep respect and fascination for the country and culture but there are some ill feelings as well that result from being treated poorly, especially if one is doing the best they can to fit or at least be respectful.

I grew up being fascinated by the Japanese as well but now in my adult years, I've had to face some unpleasant realities. I'm not saying any of that is a good reason to be sticking it to the Japanese (except sexually, for money...) but that's just my take on this.

 

[MikeH]

I've had to face some unpleasant realities. I'm not saying any of that is a good reason to be sticking it to the Japanese

It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile.

 

[Garcian]

I'm not saying any of that is a good reason to be sticking it to the Japanese (except sexually, for money...) but that's just my take on this.

A good take, I think.

However, I don't see anyone complaining on the last two pages of this thread. I think we are discussing reasons (education, isolation) for the sensations we encounter.
And in the meantime, trying to understand why some people here act they way they do.

Hell, I love this place, despite some bad stuff. I went to my favorite Gold's Gym just today. Beautifully clean, silent, no show-offs. Fantastic.

 

[MikeH]

However, I don't see anyone complaining on the last two pages of this thread.

Except that everything is shit, everybody is racist and we'll all gonna die soon. OK, I might have added the last one but otherwise just 10 posts up from this one.

 

[Garcian]

Except that everything is shit, everybody is racist and we'll all gonna die soon. OK, I might have added the last one but otherwise just 10 posts up from this one.

Oh, indeed.

All I can say to that is: my women here were always treated just fine. (I think, lol)

 

[User#8628]

A third world mindset: A society where, women are treated like shit, foreigners are treated like shit, foreigners have no rights against prejudice and discrimination, anyone who does't have "true Yamato blood" is treated like shit (Ainu, Okinawans, Barakumin, Zainichi Koreans), and that includes your half-Japanese son's and daughters are treated like shit, and a complete ignorant and distorted view of what the world is really like.

However you seemed to have just answered your own question in you later posts with the anal story.

Wow this is some entitled shit.

There are a lot less women getting raped in Japan than in America, so i wouldn't say they treat women like shit.

Also my anal story wasn't about treating foreigners like shit, it was a rather comical and cute one.
The guy do NOT force anal on me or anything, he just had unrealistic expectations of foreigners that were neither positive nor negative and he didn't react badly on me telling him it was a no no.
He was totally cool about not doing anal, he had just been curious before that.

I think you reaction is not only a stupid insult to Japan. But also to third world countries.
I think there are a lot of third world countries where people treat foreigners very welcoming and respectful.

And Japanese most certainly dont treat foreigners like shit either. I'm a foreigner AND a woman and I encounter nothing but kindness.