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(apocalypse Opener)shock & Awe By Ciaran

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Wwanderer said:
This is really too silly to discuss.

You can define words however pleases you of course, and it is all a game of semantics, but it is meaningless unless your definitions are recognized and used by the rest of the world...or at least some significant portion of it. And in this case they are not. For example, what you call "simple" p4p violates anti-prostitution laws in some places, but afaik, no one would even remotely consider exchanging sex for favors (e.g., Forrest Gump's mom) to be prostitution; no sane DA would charge her with prostitution. Much less, say one of Cosby's victims; completely different laws were probably violated in those cases. No one would say his victims were prostitutes because they hoped their careers might be advanced by his favor etc. In fact what he allegedly did is illegal even where p4p is legal. As far as I can see, you are just making things up to support an argument you already lost (whether you realize it or not). Cosby was not doing p4p; he is alleged to be a sexual predator, a VERY different thing from being a monger in every place and by ever normal or accepted definition and understanding, legal or otherwise, of both terms.

Fwiiw, I think @roots reggae was also wrong on this one. Cosby is also not a PUA by any normal definition/understanding of that term.

-Ww
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What does Geisha do? Isn't it a form of P4P? $$$ is an economic instrument.
 
Wwanderer said:
This is really too silly to discuss.

You can define words however pleases you of course, and it is all a game of semantics, but it is meaningless unless your definitions are recognized and used by the rest of the world...or at least some significant portion of it. And in this case they are not. For example, what you call "simple" p4p violates anti-prostitution laws in some places, but afaik, no one would even remotely consider exchanging sex for favors (e.g., Forrest Gump's mom) to be prostitution; no sane DA would charge her with prostitution. Much less, say one of Cosby's victims; completely different laws were probably violated in those cases. No one would say his victims were prostitutes because they hoped their careers might be advanced by his favor etc. In fact what he allegedly did is illegal even where p4p is legal. As far as I can see, you are just making things up to support an argument you already lost (whether you realize it or not). Cosby was not doing p4p; he is alleged to be a sexual predator, a VERY different thing from being a monger in every place and by ever normal or accepted definition and understanding, legal or otherwise, of both terms.

Fwiiw, I think @roots reggae was also wrong on this one. Cosby is also not a PUA by any normal definition/understanding of that term.

-Ww
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Regarding Cosby, perhaps you are correct. We often make limited arguments using hyperbole.

My point was that many PUA and Cosby share a similar game plan-to achieve a primarily one-sided goal by often less than honorable methods. Then again, honor is subjective.
 
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Wwanderer said:
This is really too silly to discuss.

You can define words however pleases you of course, and it is all a game of semantics, but it is meaningless unless your definitions are recognized and used by the rest of the world...or at least some significant portion of it. And in this case they are not. For example, what you call "simple" p4p violates anti-prostitution laws in some places, but afaik, no one would even remotely consider exchanging sex for favors (e.g., Forrest Gump's mom) to be prostitution; no sane DA would charge her with prostitution. Much less, say one of Cosby's victims; completely different laws were probably violated in those cases. No one would say his victims were prostitutes because they hoped their careers might be advanced by his favor etc. In fact what he allegedly did is illegal even where p4p is legal. As far as I can see, you are just making things up to support an argument you already lost (whether you realize it or not). Cosby was not doing p4p; he is alleged to be a sexual predator, a VERY different thing from being a monger in every place and by ever normal or accepted definition and understanding, legal or otherwise, of both terms.

Fwiiw, I think @roots reggae was also wrong on this one. Cosby is also not a PUA by any normal definition/understanding of that term.

-Ww
Click to expand...
What does Geisha do? Isn't it a form of P4P? $$$ is an economic instrument. The oldest form of $$$ is bartering. It does not have to be $$$. It could be food, medicine, a favor, etc. A trade took place is the fact.
 
roots reggae said:
I am going to make a wild, perhaps inaccurate guess. I theorize that 4vibes may be young and egocentric at this stage of his life.
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yeah, I'm guessing the same so far.

However there is something very peculiar in the way he makes connections.
Even when he seems to make no sense at all, I'm sure inside his brain there is something going on that actually makes sense, he is just not being able to express it by himself.

And, pinky swear, I'm being serious....
 
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Wwanderer said:
Afaik geisha were paid with money, but your thinking has lost me again, and I am back to Wwexit mode.

-Ww
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Geisha offer companionship for $$$. Its a trade for services. Cosby offered a trade of services: girl spend time with him and he assist their career. Sex is a form of companionship.
 
4vibes said:
Geisha offer companionship for $$$. Its a trade for services.
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Interesting. I think @Damian may well be correct.

But notice that $$$ are not services. If a dollar were a service, what service would it be?? Dollars/money may be exchanged for services or for goods or invested to generate more money or given to other people or can be lost/destroyed/stolen etc. These are not the properties of a service. Geisha were not engaged in a trade of services. Nor, for that matter, were Cosby and his victims.

-Ww
 
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Damian said:
yeah, I'm guessing the same so far.

However there is something very peculiar in the way he makes connections.
Even when he makes no sense at all, I'm sure inside his brain there is something going on that actually makes sense, he is just not being able to express it by himself.

And, pinky swear, I'm being serious....
Click to expand...

An Egotist's primary intellectual tool is rationalization.

doug-coupland-doug-coupland-your-ability-to-rationalize-your-own-bad.jpg
 
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I'm not reading all those posts. But lets try not to attack people or call them names even if you strenuously disagree with what they have to say. Thanks.
 
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Damian said:
@Wwanderer , @roots reggae

Im calling it a night!

Have fun trying to make some sense out of all this
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I'll take your cue, but call it a morning.

@meiji-hope you are not referring to me. If so, it was not my intention and I apologize if anyone feels slighted. Just trying to make sense, as well, of the discussion in this thread. Nothing personal intended to any.
 
Wwanderer said:
Interesting. I think @Damian may well be correct.

But notice that $$$ are not services. If a dollar were a service, what service would it be?? Dollars/money may be exchanged for services or for goods or invested to generate more money or given to other people or can be lost/destroyed/stolen etc. These are not the properties of a service. Geisha were not engaged in a trade of services. Nor, for that matter, were Cosby and his victims.

-Ww
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$$$ is an economic instrument. P4P is an economic activity involving the flesh. Strip clubs is a form of P4P. You are confusing yourself.

Cosby is P4P because an economic activity involving flesh took place.
 
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4vibes said:
$$$ is an economic instrument. P4P is an economic activity involving the flesh. Strip clubs is a form of P4P. You are confusing yourself.

Cosby is P4P because an economic activity involving flesh took place.
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Even though I jokingly used him as poster boy, I believe that, in reality, Cosby's actions were so immoral that they cannot be classified as anything but socially criminal. I apologize for even remotely linking him to PUA.

While in some countries P4P is criminalized, in my warped view of the world, unless involving trafficking or underage, socially it is benign.

Please show me in the article where any actual economic activity took place-insinuations do not count.

Thank you!
 
4vibes said:
$$$ is an economic instrument. P4P is an economic activity involving the flesh. Strip clubs is a form of P4P. You are confusing yourself.

Cosby is P4P because an economic activity involving flesh took place.
Click to expand...

You are surely right. Cosby and his victims were engaged in an economic transaction in which they were like strippers or geisha. I mean, seriously! Just too silly to discuss.

Perhaps his defense team will try your clever analogy in the trial. :rolleyes::confused:

-Ww
 
Wwanderer said:
You are surely right. Cosby and his victims were engaged in an economic transaction in which they were like strippers or geisha. I mean, seriously! Just too silly to discuss.

Perhaps his defense team will try your clever analogy in the trial. :rolleyes::confused:

-Ww
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If Cosby didn't use the drugs it would have been normal business in that industry. Stories of sex for success happens all time in the industry. Its still P4P. You can deny it all you want.
 
roots reggae said:
Please show me .... where any actual economic activity took place-insinuations do not count.
Thank you!
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These two are a sample of many of the women. They wanted something from Cosby. They were invited. These women didn't like the trade. Given this small sample of 55 women, in his career hundreds of women would have approached him if not thousands. These other women apparently liked what they got.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/bill-...s-interview-accusations-claims-ages-dates/29/

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/bill-...s-interview-accusations-claims-ages-dates/56/
 
Actress Xxxxxxx was the first alleged victim to come forward with sexual assault allegations against Cosby. In 2000, she filed a police report saying she was assaulted during a meeting with Cosby to discuss her acting career. According to the New York Post, Xxxxx told police Cosby, "put her hand under his T-shirt and guided it south toward his sweatpants." Xxxxx, then 20, said she pulled her hand away and told Cosby she was leaving. Police said no charges were filed because "until the very moment Xxxx pulled her hand away, all actions had been consensual," according to the Post.

I'm sorry, but as you were the one to bring up Julien Blanc earlier in this thread isn't this the exact same shit that got him into so much trouble (grabbing women's heads and pushing them into his crotch while shouting Pikachu). Your PUA mouthpiece and Cosby don't seem too dissimilar really.

You claim (with you flawed logic) that just because Cosby promised something in return, it makes it P4P (I can't see in this report any claim that Cosby promised anything, or offered money), but doesn't that make every person on the planet P4P (I promise to treat you nicely, and in return I get to fuck you, in exchange for my witty banter I get my cock sucked etc).

Your argument that Cosby and P4P are related is completely flawed, but instead of manning up and admitting you are wrong you continue to make nonsense posts trying to justify your logic.

Sometimes, if you are the only person that thinks something, it's not because everybody else is wrong.
 
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NormalGuy said:
Actress Xxxxxxx was the first alleged victim to come forward with sexual assault allegations against Cosby. In 2000, she filed a police report saying she was assaulted during a meeting with Cosby to discuss her acting career. According to the New York Post, Xxxxx told police Cosby, "put her hand under his T-shirt and guided it south toward his sweatpants." Xxxxx, then 20, said she pulled her hand away and told Cosby she was leaving. Police said no charges were filed because "until the very moment Xxxx pulled her hand away, all actions had been consensual," according to the Post.

I'm sorry, but as you were the one to bring up Julien Blanc earlier in this thread isn't this the exact same shit that got him into so much trouble (grabbing women's heads and pushing them into his crotch while shouting Pikachu). Your PUA mouthpiece and Cosby don't seem too dissimilar really.

You claim (with you flawed logic) that just because Cosby promised something in return, it makes it P4P (I can't see in this report any claim that Cosby promised anything, or offered money), but doesn't that make every person on the planet P4P (I promise to treat you nicely, and in return I get to fuck you, in exchange for my witty banter I get my cock sucked etc).

Your argument that Cosby and P4P are related is completely flawed, but instead of manning up and admitting you are wrong you continue to make nonsense posts trying to justify your logic.

Sometimes, if you are the only person that thinks something, it's not because everybody else is wrong.
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P4P is an economic activity. The question is payment. Payment can be $$$, services or goods. In Cosby's case, it is services to help the girls career. For the girl, its her presence.
 
On a P4P forum? Wouldn't want to touch Cosby with a ten foot pole. Given his sexual appetite, he is a P4P. If this goes to trial, it'll come up.
 
I'm sorry, logic seems to elude you. Nobody, absolutely nobody, let me make it abundantly clear, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY, but you think Cosby is related to P4P.

Please tell me what other insightful nuggets you have in your head that the rest of the world are unaware of.
 
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