Post-approach Game

[TokyoJoeblow]

I'm again struck by a certain suspicious if not dangerous sense of unreality stemming from some of the advice proffered here.

My first time back in a Starbucks since the summer, after having a very nice chat with a 19-year-old which nonetheless ended with her declining a venue change (on terms I had any use for at least) and me leaving the establishment for pastures greener, I was accosted by the young and quite pretty assistant store manager, who proceeded to tell me I was not allowed to talk to other customers as somebody had apparently seen me do this and sent the store some kind of written complaint about someone talking to people he did not know, and how the disturbing prospect of this happening to them was damaging to the establishment's atmosphere - Japan is simply "still not used to" the prospect of inter-stranger communication, she apologised.

She also mentioned she had witnessed poor reactions to pickup in one of their Shinjuku stores (but none in mine, perhaps as I am the only one doing it around here...) and that they too had similar rules against the evils of men talking to unfamiliar women, claiming that my non-Japaneseness had nothing to do with it either. Apparently it was not one of the girls I spoke to, either, but some interfering busybody.

Whilst defending my position whilst hitting on the manager would have been the best course of action I feel, having just failed with the last girl I was more interested in getting on with matters and could only concede whilst I in no way agreed with any of what she was saying, I wasn't going to either protest or go in there again no matter how "welcome" I was to silently sit next to their girls.

And, no, I never got harshly blown out or involved in any kind of scene, knowingly talked to a minor or continued talking to anyone who showed absolutely no interest, and the manager herself conceded she had seen girls I was with enjoying our conversations. In total I only - as discretely as possible - approached 10-20 girls in this venue over a span of some weeks or months. I've no idea if I've been barred from the other stores in the area and no desire to check by going in them, but if a few letters were sent out it would not seem improbable.

Are you people living in some kind of alternative Tokyo where none of this stuff happens? How on earth could you approach nine girls in a hour in a coffee shop and not have someone notice and toss you out? Or bounce around approaching in a bar or station without staff ever batting an eye? Do you never go to the same place twice or something?

Otherwise, it's an ultimately pointless passive aggressive Japanese-style cockblocking anecdote which simply underscores approaching en masse in shops is not a terribly workable way of meeting women.

In any case, I already succumbed to the dubious lure of Sinapse's position and started tentatively trying my hand at getting ignored by scores of impassive women in the street, although the cold and ubiquity of earphones and surgical masks is not helping matters.

I often wear headphones and a surgical mask to avoid getting sick. Unlike me, most of these women are indeed just pretending to listen to music...pretty insecure and retarded.

I never try to nampa women like this. It is a total waste of time 99.99% of the time.

Just walk by and give them the evil eye or tell them the music you are listening to is better than theirs lol.

 

[Solong]

How on earth could you approach nine girls in a hour in a coffee shop and not have someone notice and toss you out? Or bounce around approaching in a bar or station without staff ever batting an eye? Do you never go to the same place twice or something?

Otherwise, it's an ultimately pointless passive aggressive Japanese-style cockblocking anecdote which simply underscores approaching en masse in shops is not a terribly workable way of meeting women.

I specialize in cafes and trains. 4 of my 6 dates this week, came via this method. The other 2 were from the Internet. Of 3 this weekday, had sex with 2 of them. 1 pulled the silly last second cancel game. 3 more to go this weekend. Who knows how that will go, but already a very good week.

On the train platform or in the train, 9 per hour approaches on average, is easy. Just don't be shy or cowardly about approaching.

You have to learn to look natural, and not creepy. Think about how you normally ride trains or accidentally encounter women, either standing or sitting next to them. Just be more slyly observant, and place yourself in good positions.

Then start normal conversations, based on: anything about her, anything around you both, anything happening around you both, or any type of language or cultural question.

Inability to start and have natural conversations or not look or act creepy or odd, is where most newbies fail. Practice is what makes a guy more smooth and less nervous.

As for cafes or fast food restaurants, the trick is volume coming in and out of the place. Simply sit next to a woman you are interested in or wait for one to sit next to you (which happens in high volume places). Start a conversation.

With cafe and fast food places, you have to experiment and check out places. It requires the guy not be lazy. Eventually you start acquiring knowledge of good and bad places. Often, places near or in train stations are best, but it depends. Any highly popular or crowded place can work. Also various cafes and fast food places have multiple floors. If you strike out, you can simply change floors, or go back and forth among various places you have previously identified.

 

[Ascent]

Thanks for all the helpful responses as ever.

I can't believe I am the only person to get booted from Starbucks for talking to girls! Even Roosh never mentions this. I wonder if it was some interfering hag in there with a chip on her shoulder about me or else something to do with the comely young manageress, who did see me leaving with a few girls... Never mind.

With approaching walking girls, may I ask whether there is a consensus on how best to do this? I have read and observed the Japanese style of walking alongside or ahead and turning, but was not sure how well regarded that is considering - as has been mentioned elsewhere - the most conspicuous practitioners tend to be the ones who are the least effective.

I noticed waiting behind a corner (seems to be popular with Japanese practitioners too) tends to provoke more eye contact over standing in plain sight, but even making eye contact or being seen can apparently prompt a girl to prepare a refusal.

I'm inclined to ignore earphones (certainly I always do indoors)... the masks are a problem though as it is hard to tell what someone looks even if she has very nice eyes.

Riding around on the train or investigating the platform does sound like a very usable method (may be the most usable in winter!), although the time constraint must be difficult to deal with.

The strategy of sitting at a table or counter and waiting for an adjacent seat to be occupied by a woman, then ejecting to another floor which she will preferably not pass through if the interaction went well, or if adjacent seats are not suitably occupied, was one I already alighted on. 9 per hour seems steep though!

I was already barred from at least one high volume cafe for doing this sort of thing so I still think there is something amiss with the advice there. I believe McD's almost never interfere with customers at least.

Another aspect of the matter at hand not really discussed much here is whether to approach groups of women? Chiefly meaning pairs of women seated next to you in venues, rather than out in public.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

I had a funny thought. If you see a woman with headphones and a surgical mask, stop her and try to talk to her.

If she totally blows you off, pull one of her headphones out and put it in your ear, then say wow this music is shit then walk off haha.

 

[Sinapse]

I had a funny thought. If you see a woman with headphones and a surgical mask, stop her and try to talk to her.

If she totally blows you off, pull one of her headphones out and put it in your ear, then say wow this music is shit then walk off haha.

Butthurt reactionary bullshit

 

[Solong]

I had a funny thought. If you see a woman with headphones and a surgical mask, stop her and try to talk to her.

If she totally blows you off, pull one of her headphones out and put it in your ear, then say wow this music is shit then walk off haha.

Bro, that's too aggressive and unneeded. She doesn't owe anyone a conversation. If it doesn't go well, then move on. I agree that women who are unfriendly or who unnecessarily act bitchy can be frustrating, but better to control your emotions, and brush them off. Be the better person.

 

[Solong]

Thanks for all the helpful responses as ever.

I can't believe I am the only person to get booted from Starbucks for talking to girls! Even Roosh never mentions this. I wonder if it was some interfering hag in there with a chip on her shoulder about me or else something to do with the comely young manageress, who did see me leaving with a few girls... Never mind.

With approaching walking girls, may I ask whether there is a consensus on how best to do this? I have read and observed the Japanese style of walking alongside or ahead and turning, but was not sure how well regarded that is considering - as has been mentioned elsewhere - the most conspicuous practitioners tend to be the ones who are the least effective.

I noticed waiting behind a corner (seems to be popular with Japanese practitioners too) tends to provoke more eye contact over standing in plain sight, but even making eye contact or being seen can apparently prompt a girl to prepare a refusal.

I'm inclined to ignore earphones (certainly I always do indoors)... the masks are a problem though as it is hard to tell what someone looks even if she has very nice eyes.

Riding around on the train or investigating the platform does sound like a very usable method (may be the most usable in winter!), although the time constraint must be difficult to deal with.

The strategy of sitting at a table or counter and waiting for an adjacent seat to be occupied by a woman, then ejecting to another floor which she will preferably not pass through if the interaction went well, or if adjacent seats are not suitably occupied, was one I already alighted on. 9 per hour seems steep though!

I was already barred from at least one high volume cafe for doing this sort of thing so I still think there is something amiss with the advice there. I believe McD's almost never interfere with customers at least.

Another aspect of the matter at hand not really discussed much here is whether to approach groups of women? Chiefly meaning pairs of women seated next to you in venues, rather than out in public.

Personally, I don't approach women wearing surgical masks. Statistically, it has usually not worked out, and it appears a higher frequency wearing them tend towards anti-social behavior. There are plenty of women who don't wear them to talk to.

I've talked to women in Starbucks and never had a problem, so it might just be that particular one you went or your behavior wasn't smooth. Don't be creepy or awkward. Guys who show excessive nervousness, odd excessive staring, strange indecisive hesitation, etc... Will tend to make people think you are up to something or your fear, can generate fear and anxiety in others. Be as smooth and natural as possible.

9 approaches is relative to your success rate. Meaning if the woman doesn't blow you off, and you have a conversation for awhile, you may only get to 3 (20 minute conversations). If all the women you blow you off, 9 approaches can be quick and easy.

As your conversational skill level increases, you will most likely notice that you can get LINE or e-mail contacts in as quickly as 5 or 10 minutes. The more skillful, in less time.

A way more skillful PUAs can do this, is they can make the excuse you have to meet a friend soon, go to work, etc... either at the beginning or later in the conversation. It can also work out for you that she is the one that must leave quickly (like on trains and her arriving at her station or meeting girlfriends).

In the collecting of LINE contacts "game", don't get overly fixated on any particular woman. Because who will reply is unpredictable. The woman you were sure she would reply and she promised to do so, may lie to you and not. The one you thought wouldn't, is the one who replies and you end up having sex with or starting a relationship.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

Butthurt reactionary bullshit

Not really. Sometimes you need to be an asshole to women or they won't respect you. They sure as shit won't acknowledge you saying the same shit everyone else says: Hi, you look cute. I like you hair, blah blah.

Call her an uptight bitch. I guarantee it will catch her attention. It will be negative attention, but she will acknowledge your existence.

 

[Solong]

Not really. Sometimes you need to be an asshole to women or they won't respect you. They sure as shit won't acknowledge you saying the same shit everyone else says: Hi, you look cute. I like you hair, blah blah.

Call her an uptight bitch. I guarantee it will catch her attention. It will be negative attention, but she will acknowledge your existence.

Being an asshole, in the context you
are describing, is unwarranted. You are approaching her, not she approched you. It comes off more as a guy who can't handle rejection, so wants to throw a temper tantrum. And once you put hands on people or start touching their stuff, all bets are off. Totally unnecessary drama. Better to rely more on your brainpower and words.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

Being an asshole, in the context you
are describing, is unwarranted. You are approaching her, not she approched you. It comes off more as a guy who can't handle rejection, so wants to throw a temper tantrum. And once you put hands on people or start touching their stuff, all bets are off. Totally unnecessary drama. Better to rely more on your brainpower and words.

Since when do Japanese women EVER approach men? If a Japanese woman approaches a man, she must be a prostitute or selling something because most Japanese women will never approach a guy to hit on them. This is because Japanese women are retarded, scared rabbits.

Japanese women expect prince charming yet they act like anti-social bitches in public...so what do they expect?

Using words and being funny only gets you friendzoned, no thanks.

Everytime I have taken this approach, the woman never sees me as more than a friend.

Also, a woman who wears headphones and a facemask specifically to avoid talking to men is a bitch in my book. It isn't like they are all insecure either. Some of these "women" (girls) strut around like they are hot shit. If they don't want to be approached by men, then they must just want attention only.

 

[Sinapse]

Since when do Japanese women EVER approach men? If a Japanese woman approaches a man, she must be a prostitute or selling something because most Japanese women will never approach a guy to hit on them. This is because Japanese women are retarded, scared rabbits.

Japanese women expect prince charming yet they act like anti-social bitches in public...so what do they expect?

Using words and being funny only gets you friendzoned, no thanks.

Everytime I have taken this approach, the woman never sees me as more than a friend.

Also, a woman who wears headphones and a facemask specifically to avoid talking to men is a bitch in my book. It isn't like they are all insecure either. Some of these "women" (girls) strut around like they are hot shit. If they don't want to be approached by men, then they must just want attention only.

If they're such bitches just don't talk to them. You're not doing anybody any good here with these attitudes, least of all yourself. Women owe you nothing.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

If they're such bitches just don't talk to them. You're not doing anybody any good here with these attitudes, least of all yourself. Women owe you nothing.

I'm approaching them at the small chance they give me their contact info. If they reject me, I just tell them off. They don't owe me anything, but they don't have to strut their shit around town and act shocked if a guy hits on them.

 

[Sinapse]

I'm approaching them at the small chance they give me their contact info. If they reject me, I just tell them off. They don't owe me anything, but they don't have to strut their shit around town and act shocked if a guy hits on them.

They have every right to reject you. Maybe they are married. Maybe your approach was whack as hell. Maybe their dog just died and they don't want to talk to anybody. You telling them off is just your fragile ego being unable to handle rejection like a man. Work on yourself, work on your approach, don't worry too much if one girl doesn't want to talk to you. If she rejects you, smile and tell her to have a nice day. Maybe next time she will open up to you if she doesn't have horrible experiences with men berating her for no reason. The fact that you don't realize that your judgment and lashing out has a negative impact on nampa as a whole and your success is really troubling

 

[Solong]

I'm approaching them at the small chance they give me their contact info. If they reject me, I just tell them off. They don't owe me anything, but they don't have to strut their shit around town and act shocked if a guy hits on them.

Clearly you are having problems handling rejection and seem to be assuming every woman must be receptive to you. This is demonstrating lack of emotional control, keeping one's ego in check, focus, and/or arguably maturity.

As stated, the women you approach owe you nothing. Once you understand that, you will see it LESS as rejection, but simply turning down your offer.

With that stated, I do possibly understand 2 aspects of your position.

1) Women who are rude and arrogant.

Here you have a slight point, where it's WRONG for a woman to disrespect or insult you. However, be the mentally STRONGER person.

What is your objective? Argue with random women or hook up with women that like you? Focus on the objective and ignore arrogant or rude women that should mean nothing to you.

2) Women who are dressed sexy or clearly looking for guys.

Because she didn't pick you, don't get mad and throw a tantrum. This reflects emotional control and maturity. She has the right to dress as she pleases (within the law) and freely CHOOSE whoever she likes. Just as you do too.

If she doesn't choose you or accept your offer, then move to the next woman. Statistically, you will sooner or later find a receptive woman that will choose and like you.

You want to keep a positive vibe, because many women will reflect back the mood and energy you bring into the conversation. You want to focus on finding women that like you, NOT wasting time battling with women that don't.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

They have every right to reject you. Maybe they are married. Maybe your approach was whack as hell. Maybe their dog just died and they don't want to talk to anybody. You telling them off is just your fragile ego being unable to handle rejection like a man. Work on yourself, work on your approach, don't worry too much if one girl doesn't want to talk to you. If she rejects you, smile and tell her to have a nice day. Maybe next time she will open up to you if she doesn't have horrible experiences with men berating her for no reason. The fact that you don't realize that your judgment and lashing out has a negative impact on nampa as a whole and your success is really troubling

Smile and maybe next time they will talk to you? That is funny. No they most likely won't. Japanese people don't tend to be very open minded and therefore tend to firmly cling to first impressions.

My ego isn't fragile. I'm just a bit narcissistic, which many men are guilty of as well.

I have a lot of success with women considering my attitude.

If a woman is sweet to me, I will be sweet to her. The reality is most Japanese women aren't sweet at all. They are only projecting a false sense of being sweet/cute which is just the media talking.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

Clearly you are having problems handling rejection and seem to be assuming every woman must be receptive to you. This is demonstrating lack of emotional control, keeping one's ego in check, focus, and/or arguably maturity.

As stated, the women you approach owe you nothing. Once you understand that, you will see it LESS as rejection, but simply turning down your offer.

With that stated, I do possibly understand 2 aspects of your position.

1) Women who are rude and arrogant.

Here you have a slight point, where it's WRONG for a woman to disrespect or insult you. However, be the mentally STRONGER person.

What is your objective? Argue with random women or hook up with women that like you? Focus on the objective and ignore arrogant or rude women that should mean nothing to you.

2) Women who are dressed sexy or clearly looking for guys.

Because she didn't pick you, don't get mad and throw a tantrum. This reflects emotional control and maturity. She has the right to dress as she pleases (within the law) and freely CHOOSE whoever she likes. Just as you do too.

If she doesn't choose you or accept your offer, then move to the next woman. Statistically, you will sooner or later find a receptive woman that will choose and like you.

You want to keep a positive vibe, because many women will reflect back the mood and energy you bring into the conversation. You want to focus on finding women that like you, NOT wasting time battling with women that don't.

My objective is slowly shifting to just being argumentative with women and men because most of them are racist here in the countryside of Japan.

I also get tired of Japanese women initially showing sexual interest in me and later flaking on me.

I have sex friends once in a while, but it is always the average women. The hottest women I'm actually attracted to are ALWAYS the biggest bitches.

My approaches aren't wack and I'm not afraid to talk to women at all. My approach becomes wack when I start to tell them off.

 

[Solong]

My objective is slowly shifting to just being argumentative with women and men because most of them are racist here in the countryside of Japan.

I also get tired of Japanese women initially showing sexual interest in me and later flaking on me.

I have sex friends once in a while, but it is always the average women. The hottest women I'm actually attracted to are ALWAYS the biggest bitches.

My approaches aren't wack and I'm not afraid to talk to women at all. My approach becomes wack when I start to tell them off.

Trust me, I've been annoyed by the fear, paranoia, or arrogance I've come across when talking to Japanese women. But I tend to look at it like Baseball. Even if you are in a slump and striking out often, keep swinging, because the law of averages are on your side. Eventually you will score a hit or homerun. I keep approaching women, and sooner or later, things will go my way.

As a Baseball player trying to get a hit, cursing the ball and pitcher are likely to do you little good. You may want to focus on your technique instead.

And when approaching women, this is even more the case. You are just making yourself more frustrated and increasing the amount of negative energy, by cursing at random women. Better to focus on your approach and how to turn interactions more favorable with the women you meet. I know it can be frustrating, but it can be done.

 

[Manfreidi]

Frankly getting angry with women is an exercise in not only futility but also stupidity when you are a guest in their country and there are enough people already out there to spoil your day(racists,white knight goofballs, and other women jealous you didn't talk to them).

Reality is that your just better off excepting each experience regardless of the outcome adds to your total wealth.

 

[Manfreidi]

With regards to getting kicked out of Starbucks. I think you need to be a legit patron, have a coffee write some emails. Be genuinely going about your and have your day "interrupted" by a women you were not expecting to meet but feel compelled to talk. If your just in it exclusively to pick women your not going to come across naturally/sincerely which is needed to build the trust to allow for escalation.

 

[Solong]

With regards to getting kicked out of Starbucks. I think you need to be a legit patron, have a coffee write some emails. Be genuinely going about your and have your day "interrupted" by a women you were not expecting to meet but feel compelled to talk. If your just in it exclusively to pick women your not going to come across naturally/sincerely which is needed to build the trust to allow for escalation.

Agreed. If a guy hasn't bought something and is simply roaming around the place looking odd and staring down women (unless it's a quick look to see if any prospects are in there), that's not usually going to go well.

Look natural, be smooth in how you go about it.

 

[NormalGuy]

I really don't understand this conflictive attitude. A good looking woman wants a bit of peace and quiet to listen to music and you think it's
A) ok to interrupt her
B) ok to abuse her because she's not interested in you.

When I put my headphones in and sit on the train listening to music, it's because I want some peace and quiet. It annoys the fuck out of me when people expect to talk shit to me that I'm not interested in.

 

[Manfreidi]

I really don't understand this conflictive attitude. A good looking woman wants a bit of peace and quiet to listen to music and you think it's
A) ok to interrupt her
B) ok to abuse her because she's not interested in you.

When I put my headphones in and sit on the train listening to music, it's because I want some peace and quiet. It annoys the fuck out of me when people expect to talk shit to me that I'm not interested in.

I think what you are saying is reasonable but then pair this with the fact that the chick in the mask with headphones is also using the majority of her energy to size you up with ninja eyes. Why shouldn't he engage? His action might be the first bit of therapy that gets her over her madness.


On a side note we all know that TokyoJB is absolutely insane right? but we still love him - at least i do. Its like he's my retarded cousin or something. I still cannot figure out how he isn't spending his days with the fine company down at the Koban or making out with a yakuza in a 4 by 4 ft cell.


Edit: before the mods come here and crack on me. I want to make it clear my comments stand but i truly like TokyoJB and would happily sit down for drink with him as long as he promises that he won't raise the antics and get us both in there for a threesome with that yakuza.

 

[Ascent]

The sad thing was that I was actually getting quite a bit of work done and even ordering their junk, although the demands of observing the shop and discretely repositioning surely destroyed my productivity. Roosh has a whole chapter on this sort of thing as it happens. Still, unless you never move and rely only on adjacent seats in order to keep as low a profile as possible it is going to be somewhat obvious what you are up to. And your approach is very much overt and "direct" if you are reduced to going and sitting next to someone when there are scores of empty seats around, which tends to result in being shut down.

The hostility towards women with negative attitudes certainly seems unjustified when dealing with an unsolicited approach, but with online girls I can quite sympathise! What a bunch of awful flaky maniacs.

Based on what I have seen here, it seems nobody bothers with girls in sets of two or otherwise?
No problem approaching these groups in alcohol serving venues I find, but I was not at all sure about the daytime.

 

[Sinapse]

nobody bothers with girls in sets of two or otherwise?

I most definitely do go into groups. I find its actually often easier than single sets of women. You get both (or all) of the members of the group talking to you and interested in you, and you can even play them off each other and get them fighting for your attention. They also are less likely to feel threatened since they are more comfortable with their friend. In this situation, if you are on the street or the group is moving, its best to make your initial interaction with the group to be loud enough that the whole group can hear it - do NOT try to 'snipe' off the girl you like. Address everybody, or if you address one member, at least make it clear and loud enough that all can participate.

As a side note - you can get everybody's number at the end and only message the girl you liked best. This works well with mixed groups of guys. Befriend the guys first, get everybodys LINE, message the girls for dates. If you like the guys too, of course, you can message them as well and be drinking mates or whatever.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

I think what you are saying is reasonable but then pair this with the fact that the chick in the mask with headphones is also using the majority of her energy to size you up with ninja eyes. Why shouldn't he engage? His action might be the first bit of therapy that gets her over her madness.


On a side note we all know that TokyoJB is absolutely insane right? but we still love him - at least i do. Its like he's my retarded cousin or something. I still cannot figure out how he isn't spending his days with the fine company down at the Koban or making out with a yakuza in a 4 by 4 ft cell.


Edit: before the mods come here and crack on me. I want to make it clear my comments stand but i truly like TokyoJB and would happily sit down for drink with him as long as he promises that he won't raise the antics and get us both in there for a threesome with that yakuza.

I'm not afraid of Yakuza. I would fight them to the death if those racist bastards put me in that situation. Yakuza are racist and now they are butt-hurt because they are losing their turf to the Chinese gangs boo-hoo lol.

As for being your "retarded" cousin, I guess I can play the part. I'm not retarded, but I guess I'm crazy because I'm not afraid of the consequences of my actions.

When a Japanese women gives me her wannabe ninja eyes, it makes me want to hit on her more. I enjoy pissing stuck up women off. Just today I was hitting on women politely at the mall and one women just walked passed me and said nothing and gave me a shitty look for no reason. I wasn't even being rude. So I walked up to her and asked her what her fucking problem was and I asked her if she is shy? has no confidence? is a lesbian? The look on her face was priceless. I wish I had time to snap a photo of her. I did manage to get an email from a way less bitchy woman though, so it's all good.