What's People's Issues With Pua?

[Wwanderer]

You are including all men approaching women. The number of PUA are not that many. PUA don't harass as Cajun showcased.

Nope. As my post says very explicitly and literally, I am including men who self-identify as PUA/gamers.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Perhaps one reason that so many people dislike PUA/gaming is that it so often produces tiresome and repetitive but very quickly growing threads on internet forums devoted to adult activities!

-Ww

 

[Chocoballs]

Never? I said they don't. As a PUA, I would stop and address her discomfort when I see it. If she doesn't want to talk, I let her go.

It's nice that you let her go but you could consider the possibility that your ability to see it is not 100%.

She might feel haressed already before you even noticed it.

 

[Chocoballs]

Perhaps one reason that so many people dislike PUA/gaming is that it so often produces tiresome and repetitive but very quickly growing threads on internet forums devoted to adult activities!

-Ww

I stopped participating in these discussions but somehow I slipped into one today.

I wanted to eat just one cookie but ended up eating the whole box

 

[4vibes]

-Ww,
You said women targeted by PUA type. How many of those are actually PUA? I'm not talking about beginners or average guy who approaches women? You are including everyone in the category.

 

[4vibes]

It's nice that you let her go but you could consider the possibility that your ability to see it is not 100%.

She might feel haressed already before you even noticed it.

Nothing is 100% except for death and taxes.

 

[4vibes]

There is a much easier way. You can just ask the women. In fact, you need not even ask; if you spend much time around women of the sort that PUAs/gamers tend to target, you will hear them comment on it without being asked.
-Ww

Here is your fallacy. You assumed only PUA will approach these women. Given the small numbers of PUA, I say more average Joe approach them than they realized. Second, how can they tell who is a PUA or not. I'm not talking about beginners or average Joes.

 

[DJV]

Believing pickup is true is threatening to one's own life choices (past and present).

"If it is true, it means I could have been getting laid this whole time with women I see on magazine covers! I don't want to believe it, therefore I poke holes in it whenever it surfaces"

Of course, nobody would admit this.

OK, I have an analogy I'd like to share : I love video games.

At some point I considered being a video game designer, and know all the arcanes / tricks / balances / incentive / emotional play, etc. Work hard, understand, improve, create, etc.

Then I felt it would certainly kill my passion in the process, so I chose to remain a happy amateurish-to-some-extent gamer.
It doesn't prevent me to be curious and read some theory at times.

I like women to remain somewhat mysterious, and I don't want to "compute" / "script" / "streamline" my game (the little I have at least).

When I manage to seduce an incredible girl, it feels like Jackpot at the Casino

 

[Wwanderer]

Here is your fallacy. You assumed only PUA will approach these women.

Here is your fallacy. You assume that you can read people's minds. What you say is definitely not what I assume. Another example, you think you can tell whem a woman is annoyed by being approached with high reliability. From a number of past examples in which you in which you attribute thoughts or opinions to me, your mind reading powers fail a majority of the time.

Fwiiw and in an attempt to stay at least slightly on topic, the stance that you and only you (and those who agree with you) get to determine who is and who is not a (real/master) PUA and that what anyone else thinks/says is simply wrong/irrelevant is another example of the sort of blind arrogance that people find offensive in the PUA community.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

Here is your fallacy. You assume that you can read people's minds. What you say is definitely not what I assume. Another example, you think you can tell whem a woman is annoyed by being approached with high reliability. From a number of past examples in which you in which you attribute thoughts or opinions to me, your mind reading powers fail a majority of the time.

Fwiiw and in an attempt to keep to stay at least slightly on topic, the stance that you and only you (and those who agree with you) get to determine who is and who is not a (real/master) PUA and that what anyone else thinks/says is simply wrong/irrelevant is another example of the sort of blind arrogance that people find offensive in the PUA community.

-Ww

Wrong. You are blaming PUA for things regular guys are causing women. That's your favorite tactic. I just want to clarify that point.

 

[Wwanderer]

Wrong. You are blaming PUA for things regular guys are causing women. That's your favorite tactic. I just want to clarify that point.

Also to clarify - I regard a guy as a PUA if *he* considers himself to be one, and if not, then I don't. I do the same with other poorly/vaguely defined labels people give themselves and each other. For example, if someone considers themselves a spiritual person, I regard them as one.

Perhaps you could explain why you feel that you have the authority to decide who is a PUA and who is a "regular guy".

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

Also to clarify - I regard a guy as a PUA if *he* considers himself to be one, and if not, then I don't. I do the same with other poorly/vaguely defined labels people give themselves and each other. For example, if someone considers themselves a spiritual person, I regard them as one.

Perhaps you could explain why you feel that you have the authority to decide who is a PUA and who is a "regular guy".

-Ww

Given the community has a high turnover rate. I consider any guy who has been in the community for at least 3yrs a PUA.

 

[Wwanderer]

Given the community has a high turnover rate. I consider any guy who has been in the community for at least 3yrs a PUA.

That is an interesting and more-or-less reasonable sounding criterion. Thanks for explaining, rather than just stating.

Why is the turnover rate so high, do you think? Some PUAs/gamers (e.g., @Sinapse ) claim that it works so well for pretty much every guy who tries it, that I would have thought a low turnover rate would be implied. What fraction, would you guess or if you know, of the guys who try it find it worthwhile/useful enough to remain in the community for 3 years? Or for one year?

-Ww

 

[John Chavers]

You said women targeted by PUA type. How many of those are actually PUA? I'm not talking about beginners or average guy who approaches women? You are including everyone in the category.

Let's all play logical fallacy bingo!

 

[4vibes]

That is an interesting and more-or-less reasonable sounding criterion. Thanks for explaining, rather than just stating.

Why is the turnover rate so high, do you think? Some PUAs/gamers (e.g., @Sinapse ) claim that it works so well for pretty much every guy who tries it, that I would have thought a low turnover rate would be implied. What fraction, would you guess or if you know, of the guys who try it find it worthwhile/useful enough to remain in the community for 3 years? Or for one year?

-Ww

It works if a person stays with it. Most don't put the effort into it. I say half give up after the first yr. This is the point where a person starts to change. This is the point where a person completes his 1000 approaches.

 

[DJV]

It works if a person stays with it. Most don't put the effort into it. I say half give up after the first yr. This is the point where a person starts to change. This is the point where a person completes his 1000 approaches.

This metrics seems crazy to me !
Much like counting the number of wrong key presses when you learn playing the piano

 

[4vibes]

This metrics seems crazy to me !
Much like counting the number of wrong key presses when you learn playing the piano

Its why the turnover is so high. It takes dedication. Its just over 19 approaches a week. Its brutal the first few months. Imagine falling off your bike over and over for months. You get luck in there but not consistent payoff.

There is just so much to learn: concepts, body language, mental toughness, etc.

 

[Wwanderer]

It works if a person stays with it. Most don't put the effort into it. I say half give up after the first yr. This is the point where a person starts to change. This is the point where a person completes his 1000 approaches.

Don't these PUAs-in-training end up annoying and harrassing a lot of those women they approach ineptly in the first year or three even if they never do it again after they have become a master PUA (which personally I don't believe for a split nanosecond, but that is a different issue)? Why is it ok to harrass all those women in the process of learning PUA? Why is it ok to make them unwilling props in a PUA's "self-improvement" efforts?

I believe that @Sinapse has stated/admitted that he probably bothered a lot of women before he got the hang of it.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

Not everyone is a PUA but only guys who try to meet girls in a systematic way. At least they are wannabe PUA.

With systemic I don't mean he has to look systematic but there is some idea behind an approach.

Nearly all guys who approach women are systematic. It's a matter of being conscious, using intelligence, or being aware of what you are doing or not.

When a guy isn't aware or fully conscious about what he's doing, success is often way more random or accidental. Many people want to improve their chances of success, so will utilize some type of strategy. The debate or disagreement is often about which strategy to use.

 

[Solong]

Don't these PUAs-in-training end up annoying and harrassing a lot of those women they approach ineptly in the first year or three even if they never do it again after they have become a master PUA (which personally I don't believe for a split nanosecond, but that is a different issue)? Why is it ok to harrass all those women in the process of learning PUA? Why is it ok to make them unwilling props in a PUA's "self-improvement" efforts?

I believe that @Sinapse has stated/admitted that he probably bothered a lot of women before he got the hang of it.

-Ww

The term bother or harass is often being used inappropriately to negatively miscategorize others. To approach or talk to somebody new in a public space does NOT mean you are harassing them nor is it illegal or automatically bad. There is a difference.

 

[Babaram]

To approach or talk to somebody new in a public space does NOT mean you are harassing them nor is it illegal or automatically bad. There is a difference.

So that would put the Get-the-chicks community on the same level as telephone solicitors and spammers?

 

[4vibes]

Don't these PUAs-in-training end up annoying and harrassing a lot of those women they approach ineptly in the first year or three even if they never do it again after they have become a master PUA (which personally I don't believe for a split nanosecond, but that is a different issue)? Why is it ok to harrass all those women in the process of learning PUA? Why is it ok to make them unwilling props in a PUA's "self-improvement" efforts?
-Ww

First, the wannabe don't know what is harassing. They are learning the limit of social acceptance. They recognize they may make mistakes. They will stop when it happens.

Second, harassers don't care if they are. They don't change. They don't recognize the limits of social acceptance and don't care.

 

[Babaram]

You've been discussing this all Saturday night. Aren' t you supposed to share the futon with Hot Babe XXX right now?

 

[rick]

Let's all play logical fallacy bingo!

There's more than enough posts here to fill up a bingo card twice over...

 

[Babaram]

Jerks teaching jerks how to become bigger jerks is not a valuable contribution to society.