Why Group Dates & Meeting Her Friends Could Be Bad

[Ladylisa]

The nonsense that you are trying to pull is laughable. It's like a rich billionaire complaining about the lack of good servants or not fast enough service, while stepping over homeless people.

I want you to put an ad out as a female on Craigslist. And heaven forbid you say that you want no strings attached sex or that you like sex. You are liable to have so many messages, it will take you a week of non-stop reading to get through them all.

And, I've dated some women, where they had me fix their computer. They had online accounts flooded with so many messages, that they had to disable the accounts and couldn't read them all.

You are mixing up a woman's massive abundance of choice and options, with the inability to intelligently choose or filter among the men she has available, and with men that are mentally disturbed.

1) Not every man that a pretty woman dates is a stalker.

In fact, as a man, I've had trouble with female stalkers before. Crazy, is not specify to a gender, and that's also why we have police and lawyers.

2) She chooses wrong

It's not anybody's fault but her own, if a woman wasted her youth as a spoiled and entitled brat or is bad at choosing men. Women are equally accountable for their actions.

3) Older women with money.

Can run through young boy-toys with ease. However, money can't buy you love or force somebody to be loyal or faithful.

Money can't buy men love or loyalty nor can it for women. That's just how it is.

4) Women have the advantage when they are younger, and things even out more as men get older, IF he has money.

Women live longer, are more likely to have men take care of them (non-working housewives), they are more likely to get; welfare, child support, insurance money from husband's death, social benefits and sympathy, etc... Overall, women stealthily have it a lot better than men, except in physical strength and the perception of direct control of society (which is debatable).

A lot of older men don't even have the money to afford a woman or can't even get women to pay attention to them or love them (hypergamy), because she is chasing Mr. Popular or Mr. Rich. So, I wouldn't exactly only feel sorry for women, because they are not getting all the benefits that they feel entitled to.

Actually I did put an ad on craigslist for casual sex - no strings attached and for the next day.

Basically that's what got me thinking that it would be good if there was a P4P option for women.

Basically I wanted sex the next day - with the kind of guy I wanted and the way I wanted it - basically like ordering a pizza with the toppings I wanted.


I put a carefully crafted ad up to increase the chances of getting responses from the kind of guys I was looking for (I was pretty specific) and the responses started coming in.
In 4 hours I was swamped and took my ad down, but luckily I got some good quality responses among the flood of emails (along with a lot of pretty low quality responses) and with a bit of back and forth I made arrangements to meet with a few.

Yes, I could get a date for the next day and yes I ended up getting what I was looking for - sex the way I wanted it with pleasure guaranteed for me.

But it was actually hours of work on the computer -reading through replies and responding - for me to get that.

Paying would have been less hassle.

 

[User#16452]

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[Solong]

Actually I did put an ad on craigslist for casual sex - no strings attached and for the next day.

Basically that's what got me thinking that it would be good if there was a P4P option for women.

Basically I wanted sex the next day - with the kind of guy I wanted and the way I wanted it - basically like ordering a pizza with the toppings I wanted.


I put a carefully crafted ad up to increase the chances of getting responses from the kind of guys I was looking for (I was pretty specific) and the responses started coming in.
In 4 hours I was swamped and took my ad down, but luckily I got some good quality responses among the flood of emails (along with a lot of pretty low quality responses) and with a bit of back and forth I made arrangements to meet with a few.

Yes, I could get a date for the next day and yes I ended up getting what I was looking for - sex the way I wanted it with pleasure guaranteed for me.

But it was actually hours of work on the computer -reading through replies and responding - for me to get that.

Paying would have been less hassle.

You are having rich people, over abundance, type problems. LOL! Enjoy it for while it lasts. Trust me, the average guy looks at what you typed and shakes his head.

My opinion, is that the nirvana of that perfect guy many women seek is not available. Such a guy would be flooded and have way too many options in women, and likely wouldn't be for sale in that way. In addition, a lot of women would pull such a guy off the market as quickly as possible. Women might try to get pregnant by him, give him money and let him live with her for free, etc...

It's like a woman thinking she can buy Brad Pitt or Justin Bieber. Those type of guys got money in their pocket, so wouldn't be on the market like that. She can't buy that type of guy, she can only be that woman in which he would pick above all others.

Look at it another way. When you get old and gray, it's unlikely that you could pull so many guys like now. It might be better to appreciate what you can get, even if it requires a bit of effort to filter.

And some of these women are passing over guys that are like diamonds in the rough, that they don't realize it, because they aren't popular at the moment. Brad Pitt and Tupac, both said women paid them no attention and they struggled with women until they got famous, then women were throwing their panties at them.

 

[Ladylisa]

You are having rich people, over abundance, type problems. LOL! Enjoy it for while it lasts. Trust me, the average guy looks at what you typed and shakes his head.

My opinion, is that the nirvana of that perfect guy many women seek is not available. Such a guy would be flooded and have way too many options in women, and likely wouldn't be for sale in that way. In addition, a lot of women would pull such a guy off the market as quickly as possible. Women might try to get pregnant by him, give him money and let him live with her for free, etc...

It's like a woman thinking she can buy Brad Pitt or Justin Bieber. Those type of guys got money in their pocket, so wouldn't be on the market like that. She can't buy that type of guy, she can only be that woman in which he would pick above all others.

Look at it another way. When you get old and gray, it's unlikely that you could pull so many guys like now. It might be better to appreciate what you can get, even if it requires a bit of effort to filter.

And some of these women are passing over guys that are like diamonds in the rough, that they don't realize it, because they aren't popular at the moment. Brad Pitt and Tupac, both said women paid them no attention and they struggled with women until they got famous, then women were throwing their panties at them.

I was in no ways looking for the "perfect" guy, but I was looking for a *good experience* - someone who would treat me well and with whom I would have an enjoyable experience.

And yes I agree with you about diamonds in the rough.
I actually prefer men who are not tall, (under 5'10" preferably) but I know that a lot of women have height as a prerequisite and will reject shorter guys.
Obviously there has to be a certain level of physical attraction, but mostly I want to find someone who I find interesting and who I will have good sex with.

And my point (which really was a throw away line) is that sometimes it would be nice just to be able to order that up when I'm horny.

 

[Wwanderer]

Odd that a forum with a lot of focus on P4P is arguing against the need for it.

Exactly!

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

You are having rich people, over abundance, type problems. LOL! Enjoy it for while it lasts. Trust me, the average guy looks at what you typed and shakes his head.

My opinion, is that the nirvana of that perfect guy many women seek is not available. Such a guy would be flooded and have way too many options in women, and likely wouldn't be for sale in that way. In addition, a lot of women would pull such a guy off the market as quickly as possible. Women might try to get pregnant by him, give him money and let him live with her for free, etc...

It's like a woman thinking she can buy Brad Pitt or Justin Bieber. Those type of guys got money in their pocket, so wouldn't be on the market like that. She can't buy that type of guy, she can only be that woman in which he would pick above all others.

Look at it another way. When you get old and gray, it's unlikely that you could pull so many guys like now. It might be better to appreciate what you can get, even if it requires a bit of effort to filter.

And some of these women are passing over guys that are like diamonds in the rough, that they don't realize it, because they aren't popular at the moment. Brad Pitt and Tupac, both said women paid them no attention and they struggled with women until they got famous, then women were throwing their panties at them.

It seems to me that most of this could be read as an argument that women would also find p4p options useful and for many of the same reasons that men do.

And why would a "perfect woman" be any more likely to be available on the p4p market a "perfect man" would be (if both markets were equally available)?

-Ww

 

[Ladylisa]

It seems to me that most of this could be read as an argument that women would also find p4p options useful and for many of the same reasons that men do.

Yes I'm going to need it when I'm "old and gray"

 

[Wwanderer]

Yes I'm going to need it when I'm "old and gray"

Don't worry! You have liked so many of my posts that I'll be happy to give you a generous discount!

Or is it that I have liked so many of yours. I am confused on how the "likes" to discounts game is imagined to work.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

It seems to me that most of this could be read as an argument that women would also find p4p options useful and for many of the same reasons that men do.

And why would a "perfect woman" be any more likely to be available on the p4p market a "perfect man" would be (if both markets were equally available)?

-Ww

Men and women are not the same, thus the reality of differences in the "games" played and the way the market looks. We can "want" or "wish" something to be a certain way, but that can be in conflict with the reality of how things are or why things happen a certain way.

I've seen no evidence that there are enough women to create or support a market of p4p options similar to what is available for men, as arguably women already have it for free. One needs to think deeply and honestly about why the p4p market looks like what it is now.

Why would an attractive/decent looking young woman pay top dollar for what she can easily get loads of for free?

So, are we mainly trying to supply highly popular or good looking young men to unattractive or older women for money?

I'm not saying that's always the case, but is there enough demand out there for what a woman says she wants to establish that type of sustainable p4p market? Looks like there isn't.

Attempts to establish heterosexual gigolo markets have not done well or have failed beyond a small niche. It's arguably partially based on the biology of men and women. To what extent do older or unattractive women seek no strings attached sex?

Furthermore, it appears the male homosexual and transsexual markets tend to wipe out the female p4p options. Meaning many of those effeminate, gigolo, or good looking men, that such women might seek, are arguably selling themselves or are simply inclined to make themselves available in the gay markets due to strong demand or sexual orientation.

Arguably, if you were to setup a business with 10 young men making their sexual services available for pay, it is likely that they would have more work in the homosexual market than heterosexual. Partly supply and demand, and partly based on ability to perform physically.

How many women could a gigolo service per day via his penis? How many men could a gigolo service anally? Math!!! Receptive sex is physically easier than penetrative sex. Consequently, which type of male service is likely going to be more financially successful?

Even swinger clubs would tend to eat away at the small niche of the type of p4p market described. A sexually strong woman seeks some sexual fun and is on a tight schedule. Easy for her to go to a happening bar and find some guys. And if what she wants isn't there, she can hop to different happening bars, as it's very cheap for her and drinks are virtually free. I've met a woman with what appeared to be 15 membership cards to various happening bars.

 

[Solong]

Odd that a forum with a lot of focus on P4P is arguing against the need for it.

This is the Nampa/PUA section.

P4P is not the "be all and end all" in sexual options or preferences that people have. TAG deals with a wide spectrum.

 

[Ladylisa]

Men and women are not the same, thus the reality of differences in the "games" played and the way the market looks. We can "want" or "wish" something to be a certain way, but that can be in conflict with the reality of how things are or why things happen a certain way.

I've seen no evidence that there are enough women to create or support a market of p4p options similar to what is available for men, as arguably women already have it for free. One needs to think deeply and honestly about why the p4p market looks like what it is now.

Why would an attractive/decent looking young woman pay top dollar for what she can easily get loads of for free?

So, are we mainly trying to supply highly popular or good looking young men to unattractive or older women for money?

I'm not saying that's always the case, but is there enough demand out there for what a woman says she wants to establish that type of sustainable p4p market? Looks like there isn't.

Attempts to establish heterosexual gigolo markets have not done well or have failed beyond a small niche. It's arguably partially based on the biology of men and women. To what extent do older or unattractive women seek no strings attached sex?

Furthermore, it appears the male homosexual and transsexual markets tend to wipe out the female p4p options. Meaning many of those effeminate, gigolo, or good looking men, that such women might seek, are arguably selling themselves or are simply inclined to make themselves available in the gay markets due to strong demand or sexual orientation.

Arguably, if you were to setup a business with 10 young men making their sexual services available for pay, it is likely that they would have more work in the homosexual market than heterosexual. Partly supply and demand, and partly based on ability to perform physically.

How many women could a gigolo service per day via his penis? How many men could a gigolo service anally? Math!!! Receptive sex is physically easier than penetrative sex. Consequently, which type of male service is likely going to be more financially successful?

Even swinger clubs would tend to eat away at the small niche of the type of p4p market described. A sexually strong woman seeks some sexual fun and is on a tight schedule. Easy for her to go to a happening bar and find some guys. And if what she wants isn't there, she can hop to different happening bars, as it's very cheap for her and drinks are virtually free. I've met a woman with what appeared to be 15 membership cards to various happening bars.

And those are good points.

And when I said that in a flippant way about wishing there were p4p options for women the question arises as to whether if that service was actually available at the time whether I would actually avail myself of it, and I don't know whether I would.

 

[Wwanderer]

Men and women are not the same, thus the reality of differences in the "games" played and the way the market looks. We can "want" or "wish" something to be a certain way, but that can be in conflict with the reality of how things are or why things happen a certain way.

I've seen no evidence that there are enough women to create or support a market of p4p options similar to what is available for men, as arguably women already have it for free. One needs to think deeply and honestly about why the p4p market looks like what it is now. ...

Aside from a couple of points, including one howler about which I'll post separately, I agree with what your quoted post says in that I think you have correctly identified many of the reasons that the commercial sex market for female customers is much smaller and lower profile than the one for males. There are other reasons too. One is that women seeking commercial (or other out-of-relationship) sex were once hugely constrained by the possibility of pregnancy, so their market has a very much shorter history than "the world's oldest profession" and therefore much less cultural and economic momentum. The female-serving p4p market is also even more stigmatized (for consumers and providers) than the male-serving one and is generally even more legally suppressed. Perhaps more important than any other factor, women do not command very "disposable" and often hidden financial resources nearly as large as those available to men on average, and this was far more the case in the past.

So yes, it is not hard to understand why the sex market conditions for men and women are so different.

However, that is not the question we are discussing. This whole discussion began when @Ladylisa made the very mild comment that "Sometimes as a woman I think it would be nice to have the option of paying for it when you just want to get laid without any hassles" and you replied by calling that sentiment "odd or disingenuous" and went on to explain the (mostly irrelevant as far as I can see) fact that women have an easier time than men finding sex partners. When I posted agreeing with @Ladylisa, you responded by saying "The nonsense that you are trying to pull is laughable...". So, the topic is (or was) whether or not it is odd, disingenuous or nonsensical for women to *sometimes* wish for commercial sex options...or more than they have at this time. I'd still say that it is a perfectly reasonable wish. Do you still disagree?

In any case, it is interesting to keep in mind that in the modern world commercial sexual services for women, including young and highly attractive women, are rapidly growing, especially in the world's most sexually open/liberal societies. For instance that market is now much much more extensive and visible in Tokyo than it was when I first started spending significant amounts of time in Japan about 25 years ago.

I strongly suspect that @Ladylisa's wish will be increasingly granted (by market forces) in the decades ahead.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Receptive sex is physically easier than penetrative sex.

This is a tangent on a tangent, but....seriously??? This is what I described as a howler above.

If you think receptive is easier, try having an athletic, horny and excited guy who is considerably bigger and stronger than you and who doesn't cum very quickly fuck you in the ass vigorously with an unusually large erection. Or, for that matter, just try having an athletic and seriously Dom woman using a large strap-on to do it. Then compare to your experiences being the penetrator in various sex acts you've experienced. :rolleyes"

I'd guess that either can be easier, depending on the ever devilish details of the partners and the specifics of the activity, but that the most difficult/exhausting/painful receptive situations are more difficult than any penetrative one.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

This is the Nampa/PUA section.

P4P is not the "be all and end all" in sexual options or preferences that people have. TAG deals with a wide spectrum.

True enough; this topic does not belong in either this forum or this thread, but that doesn't keep it from being a good topic for discussion. I guess we can blame that damn @Ladylisa for it being so badly misplaced.

-Ww

 

[Ladylisa]

True enough; this topic does not belong in either this forum or this thread, but that doesn't keep it from being a good topic for discussion. I guess we can blame that damn @Ladylisa for it being so badly misplaced.

-Ww

Oh I don't know - I think we could blame Solong too

I'm on the side that men should have options, like women do. No man should feel trapped, where he feels he can only pay for sex or can't have relationships with women beyond only prostitution. A man should be allowed and feel he has choices too.

Hmm... Sometimes as a woman I think it would be nice to have the option of paying for it when you just want to get laid without any hassles.

So even though it ended up being an tangent - it really was an observation about options - and my occasional feeling that it might be nice to have some of the options that men do in terms of hassle free sex.

 

[Wwanderer]

OK, I'm happy to blame @Solong too...though I fear someone will soon also point the finger at me for responding to an obviously off-topic conversation.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

OK, I'm happy to blame @Solong too...though I fear someone will soon also point the finger at me for responding to an obviously off-topic conversation.

-Ww

Ah no, and not letting you guys get away with spinning and trying to blame me in any way.[emoji35] It's very obvious who derailed and sidetracked the topic, by looking at the previous posts. [emoji12]

This topic long ago was allowed to become a free for all. When I returned to the forum, it had me shaking my head. But, I took a more "It is, what it is." attitude about it.

 

[split]

What's so difficult about a women going to a bar? Yeah, yeah, I know it's trust...is he going to cut my throat or do something crazy? (usually not, particularly in a foreign country). She can choose the guy she likes the most and take him home or his house. Most guys (as I see it) are dogs anyway and will often screw any girl on the first night. She has most of the power to choose here. More so often than a man doing the same. And, if she's worried about emotional issues on the man's part she can simply say after the sex "Listen, I want to pay you for this and keep this as a paid for sexual arrangement as long as you understand that and meet me only when I need you." An added bonus for the guy.

 

[Wwanderer]

What's so difficult about a women going to a bar?

Have you ever watched a woman get ready to go out to a bar? Even if she isn't going with the intent of finding a man, it can easily take an hour of effort to get ready...figure out what to wear, try it on, not like it, try something else, put on make-up, redo part of it, peer closely at the results in the mirror while reflecting on the meaning of life etc. If going with the purpose of finding a guy, double those times.

But more seriously, very very few women would just grab their handbag and head out the door, and it is not like they can breeze into the bar and walk out ten minutes later with the guy of their choice...if there even is an appealing guy available in that bar at that time. It is not like the typical bar has guys lined up waiting to be picked like the "social room" in a brothel.

And quite seriously, it is pretty much an evening-long activity to do what you suggest. Calling an agency and having an outcall escort come and service you can take a total of maybe 90 minutes (for an hour long appointment) if you are familiar with the drill and do it efficiently...and there is virtually no risk of failure.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

This is a tangent on a tangent, but....seriously??? This is what I described as a howler above.

If you think receptive is easier, try having an athletic, horny and excited guy who is considerably bigger and stronger than you and who doesn't cum very quickly fuck you in the ass vigorously with an unusually large erection. Or, for that matter, just try having an athletic and seriously Dom woman using a large strap-on to do it. Then compare to your experiences being the penetrator in various sex acts you've experienced. :rolleyes"

I'd guess that either can be easier, depending on the ever devilish details of the partners and the specifics of the activity, but that the most difficult/exhausting/painful receptive situations are more difficult than any penetrative one.

-Ww

You can have your opinions about how things "should" be, but I suggest you read and learn about the gigolo market, or even the host market here in Japan. It's well known that the gay side pays more.

And I have a few friends who work/worked in the host market in Japan. I also worked in a few host bars in Okinawa (Naha) many years ago and a short while, just for the adventure. Hosts are more into entertaining women and scamming them into buying expensive drinks, NOT so much sex. In fact, as a host, having sexual relationships with female customers can negatively impact the money you are getting from them. The image she had of the guy can be destroyed (bad sex), she becomes possessive, wants a personal relationship and not to go to pay the bar, etc... In fact I was pulled from doing host bar work, as met up with a rich woman from Tokyo, living temporarily in Okinawa. It's how I first came to Tokyo, as a paid vacation by her.

And host sex is more relationship-like, not high level performance on demand with 10 women a day. It's more bartender-like, where you take a horny drunk chick home sometimes, and have a few "side chicks". The focus is more, pull money from women/make money for the bar, not sex.

Even so-called "straight men", who became gay male porn actors, tend towards being receptive (bottoms), versus penetrators (tops). It's been spoken about in numerous interviews, as just "easier".

Peformance On Demand/ Performance Anxiety

It's rare for men to have the stamina to consistently carry out multiple performance on demand sex encounters in a day, every day, particularly with less than ideally attractive or ugly women in a female p4p market, unless on Viagra and other type drugs. This is easily seen in swinger clubs.

Many guys will claim to be the sex lion, but quickly become the lamb, especially under any performance pressure. And, ridiculously so, when asked to do it several times a day, almost every day.

Even in the porn industry, men are NOT asked to perform to that level, and many men quickly wear out over a short period and drop out of the industry. For every porn guy that you see, 10 or more other guys failed at the tryouts.

In tests on the matter, only 10% of males are naturally multi-orgasmic. Using prescription erectile dysfunction drugs don't count. Furthermore, abusing such prescription drugs every day can negatively impact your cardiovascular and liver health, especially mixed with alcohol.

Even under Viagra, I've seen guys FAIL in swinger clubs. Because what they are taking only lasts a short time, 2 to 3 hours. No way a guy's health can hold up popping 3 to 4 Viagras almost every day. And I wonder what the effect is when he stops, and tries to perform without it. Psychological dependency?

Host clubs VS Transsexual/Gay Bars VS Lesbian VS Swinger clubs VS Online Dating

All of the above, takes a way from a female p4p market. A slim, effeminate, and cute male can get offers or tempted to work on the gay side. This is well known, and a lot of the new half bars, have guys that worked host bars at some point. The exact type of males, that many women prefer, are also often preferred on the gay side.

You also have a lesbian market of "masculine" women or "female slaves" (in a masochistic/sub context). Many women are much more fluid in their sexuality than men are...

Such women can strap on dildos and easily service other women. Not just the masculine women, as some guys might think, but the female subs/slaves serving the more dominant women can be told to put on a strap on and service other women too. I had the opportunity to meet some of these types of women in swinger bars, as they seem to be exploring new places. They were S&M orientated, but much heavier on the lesbian side.

Then there is online dating, where women pick and choose guys based on pictures. A male gigolo service has to compete with that type of free market. Women can easily run through new men everyday from free online dating sites.

Lastly swinger clubs and parties, where if a woman is hyper sexual or very horny that day, she can run through several guys at will. Then sneak back home, and nobody knows her or about her "secret" sex life.

All of this, and we could probably add a lot more, chip away at any possible sustainable and sizeable for female customers p4p markets.

 

[Wwanderer]

@Solong - Thanks for the nice long post about a wide variety of interesting topics, but I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I could have found even a few words addressing my post which you quoted. It was merely an argument that receptive sex is not generically "easier" than penetrative sex.

What in the world, for example, does lesbian subs using of strap-ons have to do with it??

-Ww

 

[Solong]

@Solong - Thanks for the nice long post about a wide variety of interesting topics, but I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I could have found even a few words addressing my post which you quoted. It was merely an argument that receptive sex is not generically "easier" than penetrative sex.

What in the world, for example, does lesbian subs using of strap-ons have to do with it??

-Ww

You might want to re-read. The argument was about penetrative or receptive sex, and which would be easier performance wise, and relative to a female customer p4p market.

I'm explaining it as a comparative business for profit, of who will be in higher demand and be better able to perform sexually.

Will it be 10 cute/attractive men (as idealized by most women) who must get an erection and give good performances 5X a day to women that they aren't sexually attractive to half the time and almost every day for months to years. Or, will it be 10 cute/attractive men asked to only be sexually receptive?

You put up a not common scenario, as if all male customers are the incredible Hulk with a 12 inch (30cm) penis. We could easily apply that to p4p women. It can happen that some guy is big and lasts too long, but that's not going to be the usual guy. Most guys are small or average, and will cum quickly.

Furthermore, she gets used to it, like a gymnast who stretches every day. In your scenario, it's as if every day is the first day. You can't lie and claim you are a virgin forever, and have sex everyday at the same time.

Receptive sex is easier than penetrative. The firmness of the erection, performance anxiety, etc... are non factors. It's why even the average woman (if mentally inclined to and with practice) can run through dozens of men vaginally and anally, while the average man is passed out and asleep by the 3rd woman, if he even makes it that far.

Have not seen a man have sex with 6 women in a row and cum each time. And remember, a gigolo would be expected to give a good performance, not stick it in for 30 seconds and run. I have seen women have sex with 6 men, and only ANALLY, in a row and until each orgasmed. Now for women, of course they have the option of just their vagina, but clearly it can be done. If the will or incentive (like money) is there, the human body adapts, especially receptively.

I gave you the lesbian with a strap-on and others as obvious sexual and competing business options. Strap-on or vibrator can go all night, minus a battery change. She wants real human contact, swinger bars and online dating sites at her service. She is timid/scared and just wants to "talk", host bar and regular bars open all night to take her money.

You might not be understanding the market. A woman that is horny and wants penetrative sex, has multiple options, besides needing to pay a male gigolo. The male "physical performance" gigolo, to make money, is as likely to make as much or more on the gay side because of demand.

Now, as heterosexual men, we might not like it or want to fantasize that we are supermen. But go hang out, talk with more people outside the usual circles, and get more acquainted with other options that are out there.

 

[Solong]

Have you ever watched a woman get ready to go out to a bar? Even if she isn't going with the intent of finding a man, it can easily take an hour of effort to get ready...figure out what to wear, try it on, not like it, try something else, put on make-up, redo part of it, peer closely at the results in the mirror while reflecting on the meaning of life etc. If going with the purpose of finding a guy, double those times. [emoji14]

But more seriously, very very few women would just grab their handbag and head out the door, and it is not like they can breeze into the bar and walk out ten minutes later with the guy of their choice...if there even is an appealing guy available in that bar at that time. It is not like the typical bar has guys lined up waiting to be picked like the "social room" in a brothel.

And quite seriously, it is pretty much an evening-long activity to do what you suggest. Calling an agency and having an outcall escort come and service you can take a total of maybe 90 minutes (for an hour long appointment) if you are familiar with the drill and do it efficiently...and there is virtually no risk of failure.

-Ww

Ww, you are overlooking 2 things:

1) Free online dating sites.

It's as easier for a woman to use them, than it would be for any pay service.

Some online sites have ridiculous filters, like actually over-filter, and OkCupid is an example.

2) Wouldn't a woman wash up, get dressed, and put on makeup, regardless?

Even if a woman ordered a gigolo from an agency, she would likely prepare herself for him.

The only way I can see that preparation cut down a bit, is the guy goes straight to her home, versus out to dinner. Even then, only minus choosing a dress, but might get just as fussy choosing lingerie.

Many women also wouldn't see a gigolo, or free online date, for the first time at her home.

 

[Ladylisa]

Ah no, and not letting you guys get away with spinning and trying to blame me in any way.[emoji35] It's very obvious who derailed and sidetracked the topic, by looking at the previous posts. [emoji12]

This topic long ago was allowed to become a free for all. When I returned to the forum, it had me shaking my head. But, I took a more "It is, what it is." attitude about it.

Oh Solong - what is wrong with pondering more options and choices for everyone.
It's the "no hassles" bit that was the point - and having the option of that.

Yes, I derailed the thread, but the strongest response to my very mild comment was yours.
It seems to me that you are so caught up in the belief that women have it easier than men and focusing on the hassles and difficulties that men must face when trying to meet and connect with women *they like* that you completely dismiss the hassles and difficulties that women must face when trying to meet men *they like*.

You talk about it being a numbers game for men, but it's also a numbers game for women. Maybe a girl gets hit on a lot, but how many of those guys are guys she feels can connect with... And who will give a damn that she has a good time too.
There's a reason that there's that saying "To find your prince you have to kiss a lot of toads"

And there's a double standard when you talk about diamonds in the rough, and disparage women for having unrealistic standards when men do the exact same thing. You are off chasing the 10 stunner while her more average looking friend is ignored. And it is not socially acceptable for her to do the approaching for the most part.

And ... you talk about when you can get women to have sex with you - and talk about how you can often get sex on the first date. I've had my share of one night stands in my time, but I would rarely go for that now, not from any moral reason but because I've discovered that the sex for me is rarely that good on a one night stand. And why should I have sex if it's not going to be good for me too?

 

[User#16452]

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