Do you find it strange then that there are tons of men (including lots in your general age and income ranges) who somehow manage a rich and satisfying social/dating/sexual life without any training or system or devoting thousands of hours to self-conditioning (in the social sense) etc? They manage it without thinking of meeting and dating and seducing women as some sort of special skill or major challenge. They just do it by natural instinct and personality and casual role modeling of the adult world they see around them as they grow up. They do it the same way they make and have friends and the same way they handle their connections with their families and work colleagues and classmates etc. They probably even pick-up women sometimes, though cold street pick-ups are quite rare for the general population no doubt.
You're totally right! Men and women have been successfully having sex for millenia! If not, we wouldn't be here. Unfortunately, recent socialization patterns have raised a generation with weaker male role models each successive generation. For most men today, growing up with a satisfying abundance of women simply isn't the case. You can see here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...number_of_sexual_partners_low_average_or.html
That the average millenials are slated to have 8 sexual partners on average for life.
8. Think about that for a second and think if that is a satisfying number to you. I know it's not for me. Yes, men usually end up with A woman. Often it is from nearby your social circle or work, and they are often not your ideal women. My question is what's wrong with trying to improve your situation? I wasn't naturally born into having the social skills and ability to have sex with as many and as attractive social partners as I wanted (and again, if you have vastly more than 8 sexual partners, which it seems like you have had, then of course PUA might not appeal to you). So, I had to study it.
If someone studies Napoleon Hill or Dale Carnegie to improve their business skills, I'm sure you wouldn't look down on them. If they read autobiographies of people who inspire them, like Nelson Mandella or Malcolm X or whoever it may be, you wouldn't look down on them or tell them to "just let it happen". Why is trying to improve yourself based on the wisdom of people who have been there before you suddenly toxic, ineffective, unhealthy, and evil if the goal is success with women? It just doesnt make sense to me.
Furthermore, PUA is a young field, but all those techniques you describe as "natural instinct and personality and casual role modeling" are exactly what PUA teaches. This is in stark contrast to the opposite approach of "stay in your house and play video games and hope a woman comes to you".
there is no need to make meeting and seducing women some sort of special focus of one's life. Just let it happen.
Yes, this is true. At a certain point you can "just let it happen", but as I've discussed before here and in other threads, most guys aren't naturally attractive to women. In short, you have to unlearn a lot of negative beliefs, solidify your body language and communication patterns, make communicating with attractive women normal and fun, learn how to lead things to sex, and THEN you can "just let it happen". If you "just let it happen", most guys end up with those 8 women. Weeeeeeee....
I also don't think discussing the downsides of PUA or p4p should be seen as "throwing mud or getting into personal attacks"
Oh the rational, intellectual debate (downsides included) is quite fine and dandy! I have no problem with 95% of what's been said. I was referring to this:
You should read more and post less.
the insinuation that I should not post much (where my posts are much less volumous in comparison to Solong and WWs). This is a free board, and I'm not sitting on here trolling or throwing out short, meaningless, or aggressive posts, which is more than can be said for a lot of people on here, so I'm not sure why the need for personal attacks.
And the constant mention that I am somehow a "snake oil" salesman. Other people (like the lovely User#16452 who you mention) are generally acknowledged to be selling a legitimate product or service. Whether the person himself wants to partake or not, of course is another matter. Somehow on this board there are a few people who have conflated the two issues. I respect if people don't feel the need for themselves to take any sort of behavioral coaching, but that doesn't mean it is inherently a scam or useless. I would gladly refer you to
any person who has taken it and you can talk freely with them about it (PM me if you are interested). In short, if you have no interest in the product, no need to take it. Also, no need to call it a scam when you simply have no interest in it.
If these things are true (they all seem like very modest claims to me):
-The natural, socialized state of most modern men is not their most attractive state
-It is possible to improve at meeting, attracting, and keeping women
-It is possible to teach this skill
Then there is no reason to think it is scammy at all. I mentioned this already, but one characteristic of scams or snake-oil salesmen was that they left town before their wares were discovered to be false. Well, in teaching over 100 people we have never had someone request their money back or write a negative review. The reviews are, of course, on a different site (Japanlair), but you are welcome to find them and look at them if you are doubtful. Further, I'd like to mention that I am in no way aggressively pushing products on anybody here. In fact, I have said I do
not recommend it to specific people on this board - about two or three - far more than I have said I
do recommend it
- which is never. I've also said that you
can do it all for free by yourself if you so desire (it might take a lot longer, but it IS free after all). Anyone can go out on the streets, clubs, cafes, etc, and talk to women for free. So since there's nothing pushy or phony about what I'm doing I'd appreciate if the "snake oil" comments stopped. Doubt, of course is natural and understandable. I'll accept doubt
